Why is it considered eugenics to want to abort a disabled fetus so they don't suffer in life Anonymous 162388
A lot of people are against aborting fetuses that will be born with a type of disability, even if it's serious and/or life threatening. Why is it wrong to do so? Wouldn't it be better to abort to save them (and the mother) a life of suffering?
I understand that people with disabiities are still able to function in society. But they still have hardships and wouldn't it be better to take that chance away from the baby? And it's not only pro lifers that claim it's eugenics, I actually see more pro choice and leftists saying this. I'm genuinely wondering why it's immoral.
It's not your decision to say whether or not someone is suffering. Only the person themselves can say that. Plus, it's your own opinion whether suffering is worse than non existence.
Fundamentally it's all about the individual. No individual should have their life taken from them just because others have decided that for them.
Yes I realize that, but I'm talking about fetuses… babies who aren't even born yet, not people who are actually living. If a disability is detected during conception, they haven't yet even had a chance to live so is it eugenics to abort it? Isn't it essentially like aborting any other fetus, no?
sounds like capitalist speech also very shit argument
It’s also not your decision to force them into life. Checkmate, natalist.
In based Iceland, they have a down's syndrome screening and women usually abort if positive, leading to a country that's almost 100% free of it.
It shouldn't be a bad thing to not want a potato baby. Nobody does!!! They just cope by calling their potatoes "special" and having to care for it forever
I'd abort a fetus for being male
People with Down syndrome aren’t all innocent. There is a male downie I’m an acquaintance of and he’s the biggest coomer in the world. Hentai, jacking off in front of people, trying to pinch his caregiver’s ass. Fucking gross scrote. They’re the same as normal people they just don’t have high intelligence or a concept of consequences.
>Life begins at conception
Uh, excuse me, I think you mean life begins at ovulation. Sex cells are alive, can be seperate from your tissue and are DESIGNED to be be combined together. I really hope you've never not been pregnant long enough to have a period, sweety, or you're literally a murder.
having monthly egg harvesting for freezing is the only other option
Problem solved by not giving birth to that person in the first place and yes, suffering is worse than non-existence. How is this even a question. You're only wracking your brain around this problem because
you exist. What doesn't and won't ever exist will never know pain, or the idea of missing out on pain. It's completely neutral.
Money and corruption, and anyone that doesn't see this is uninformed. Big Pharma loves tard babies because of all the expenses it'll be, though the US government feels bad about this and gibs out to help cover some of it, though some parents unironically just embezzle all the handouts for themselves and give bare minimum care to their genetic mistake.
There are absolutely not enough studies out there to determine the quality of life of the born-disabled, because those that are so quick to cry "EUGENICS BAD" usually have some other unhealthy agenda in mind.
It's generally considered immoral to kill when there's other options available. I'd say especially so when you're doing it for ideological/economic/sociopolitical reasons.>>162390
NTA but like, who has the right to declare someone who would
be a person an unperson? Saying a fetus doesn't deserve legal rights is a pretty convenient strategy for getting rid of them, but I can't see one would consider that a moral decision.>>162399
Collectivists deserve what happens to them.>>162501>It's completely neutral.
A life prior to being lived is neither good nor bad. Whether you think it's moral to have a kid would depend on whether you assume the good in life outweighs the bad - which is an opinion. If you believe life is a net positive then nonexistence is a worse fate than the suffering you'd otherwise experience.
Suffering is subjective and most of it is mental, not physical. I would say the average depressed able bodied person suffers more than the average downie.
Women are capable of loving disabled people because we actually have empathy and don’t view people as commodities from a purely utilitarian standpoint that moids do. You sound like a disgusting polcel moid, bet a signed dollar you’re a tranny.
Reminds me of one time I was arguing with someone on 4chan who said all disabled people should be euthanized to save them from ‘suffering’ and when I pressed the anon he admitted to being a tranny. Troons are just suicidal incels in skirts and project their self loathing, nihilism, superficiality and desire to die onto everyone who is marginalized in any way.
Correct. What we really need to do improve the world is weed out all personality disorders, psychopathy, depression etc. And I’m amazed that the study of ‘eugenics’ doesn’t focus more on this aspect, rather than trying to make beautiful but ultimately miserable soulless specimens of perfect health and beauty (newsflash: beautiful but soulless/miserable beings already exist and there’s millions of them on tiktok) Mental illness, sociopathy/psychopathy, narcissism, severe anxiety and depression are the real problem that plagues this world. Existence is pointless if you can’t even be happy or joyful. Even disabled people are generally better at being happy than good looking or intelligent ‘normies’.
Trannyism, coomerism and pedophilia need to be eradicated too. Unfortunately in that case you’d end up genociding 90% of moids ^_^
There’s nothing wrong with aborting a disabled fetus, abortion should be available at any time, for any reason and for every woman.
So you believe women should be allowed to abort little girls because they want a boy more?
>I actually see more pro choice and leftists saying this. I'm genuinely wondering why it's immoral.
It's because they're not really pro-choice or fully acting on their principles. I see "pro-choicers" who handwring over this because they're disabled and are sad over the idea that their mother would abort them or whatever. But they are letting their feelings get in the way of their politics.>>162614
Yes, actually. I find that immoral on a personal level but my opinion on it is the same as aborting disabled fetuses. A woman choosing to abort for non-PC reasons isn't eugenics, it's eugenics if it's mandated by the government, like in China.
An individual doesn't have that much power even if their opinions are offensive. I'd rather a woman abort a disabled fetus (or a girl in this case) than force to give birth to it, resent it, and abuse it, and later just kill it as a kid, which is something I see in the news constantly.
Yeah this is what I'm getting at. It's better for everyone in the situation to not have a child instead of a child that will grow up resented.
NTA, but women already do that because they're brain washed by the patriarchy. But I stand by my stance that women should be allowed to abort a pregnancy for any reason.
Your comment dimishes shit like post partum depression, and the fact that a lot of women reported feeling nothing for the children they birthed. Just because we are not destructive for things we dont' care, like moids are, it doesn't mean all women are caring by nature. Not everyone you disagree with is a tranny.
And it's true, NO ONE wants a potato baby, that's why pregnant women go trough a lot of exams, screenings, vitamins and special diets to make sure their baby will be born healthy
>>162541>life prior to being lived is neither good nor bad
Hence why it's neutral, learn2read
Yes, it is eugenics and based.
Okay then it's ____________ so cry about it
If you wouldn’t love your kid just because it’s disabled then you would probably make a horrible parent and it’s better that you’d abort it anyway. Abortion in itself is eugenics in that it stops psychopathic, superficial and irresponsible people from procreating more.
I lol'd a little at this. Taking responsibility for what you bring into the world and the quality of your children's lives is not psychopathic, superficial or irresponsible. It's the most responsible thing you can do. You understand that somewhere along the line, your genetic code messed up and now it will result in a lower quality of life for your child and you. So you stop that mistake before it becomes a bigger one.
The funny thing is, abortion is the compromise. Men forget that we could always go back to the days when women who had children who would be a burden to them and the family were left to die on a hill, or left on the composting manure piles so that anyone could raise them as a slave.
Come on sis, you’re on cc, chances are you’re on the spectrum yourself so it’s inevitable your kid would come out autistic regardless. Your future children are also at higher risk for miscarriage, premature birth, disability and birth complications. But like I said, I support selfish dickheads getting abortion, it’s the best form of birth control there is. You’re probably a tranny anyway.
Well clearly you have no idea what you’re talking about because disabilities are a huge spectrum. Some need little to no extra care, some require extreme extra care. Your precedent is that you want to stop your child from suffering and improve their quality of life because it might come out a downie or whatever, even though downies are relatively low maintenance and a physically healthy child is just as capable of developing severe depression, a personality disorder, or any other kind of mental illness, having an accident, getting cancer or meningitis or any other kind of illness; birth complications, will be ugly etc. All of which are extremely detrimental to quality of life.
The people on here are certainly not very good examples of good looking well adjusted neurotypical people and half seem to be trannies, so the eugenics argument coming from these people is very amusing indeed. Just like /pol/ it seems to be a strong theme. I wonder if it’s simply an externalized form of self loathing.
Schrodingers autistic tranny. Enjoy never reproducing because you have no womb and your HRT gave you ED.
>producing normal children
Ugly people tend to be the most eugenicist of all. You don’t see Dolph Lundgren or Adriana Lima advocating for eugenics. It was always ugly nerds like Bill Gates and emo nazi midgets like Goebbels.
>>162668>even though downies are relatively low maintenance
With this sentence alone I can tell that you have never been the part time or full time care for a child with Down syndrome. Your opinion on the matter has been discarded.
I worked in a home for disabled adults. Down syndrome people were the easiest disability to work with and least high maintenance. So what’s your qualifications exactly to claim differently hmm?
Stop replying to Blaine nona. He’s baiting and looking for attention.
Ntayrt but of course, good looking people benefit from the existence of ugly people. They wouldn't be considered as beautiful if everyone could just look gorgeous because of widespread eugenism. Adriana Lima wouldn't have a career if she was the new average, for instance.
It's ugly/disabled people who are the most interested in escaping the unfairness of genetics with eugenism. They can relate to the unfair randomness of it all, gorgeous and healthy people can't.
I'm not advocating for or against eugenism, just making an observation.
People who want disabled people to be aborted claim it’s an ethical or moral issue but the reality is they’re just extreme lookists and think anyone who isn’t a Chad or Stacy is evil.
Genetics doesn’t work like that. You can’t predict whether a child is going to be good looking or not. Some of the ugliest peoples produce model tier kids and some of the most good looking produce incel tier kids. Good looks is literally just a random chance thing based on winning a hypothetical genetic lottery, you can’t programme for it like the Nazis tried and failed to do with Lebensborn, until you start using things like advanced gene editing and crispr it’s literally impossible.
Anyway, eugenics is a moid field created by psychopathic moids to justify genocide. If you’re an unironic eugenicist then you’re definitely a moid and you should probably just kys because your utopian ideal of humanity will never come true. All utopian eugenicists like Hitler, Mao and Stalin were just evil moids.
Yes? You're not making me learn anything; i know it's impossible today, but that's not the point. People's interest in eugenism is very often determined by the experience of the unfair randomness of genetics distribution, that's what i said. A thing being materially impossible doesn't make people stop thinking about that very thing. Just like we're able to wonder about vast science fiction themes while many of them are impossible by today's standards. I mean, it's the mankind's history to think about impossible things to achieve.
So if eugenicists get their way and everyone looks like a 7ft Aryan supermodel with 200 IQs…then what?
The fuck you're on about? Connect your neurons for two seconds, please. I'm saying OF COURSE disadvantaged people are the most interested in eugenism, and i'm telling you why. I don't fucking care about eugenism myself, never did.
I never said you were. I’m just genuinely curious as to what you think will happen to the world if everyone is a 7ft 10/10 supermodel with extremely high IQ.
I don't know, but it sounds like a dystopian hell to me, though i don't think it would ever happen because most people aren't unhinged like that, even if it was materially possible to create ""perfect humans"" only a handful of people would go for it.
How so? Do you think people would start finding other ways to compete? I think it would descend into an all out tech war for global dominance between everyone with AIs fighting AIs.
We'd all be psychic and more people would be mind battling than currently are.
Too tired to be very precise with my thoughts, but i think we would lose some very important and inherent part of the human experience. The unfairness of genetics, the randomness of the universe, it has shaped us. If you think about it, every kind of literature is born out of this feeling, why am i alive, why am i mortal, why am i not free, why is the world not perfect, why am i not beautiful, what is beauty? Etc. It's ontologically part of what we are, and if we get rid of it i don't know what would be left of us.
It's someone a lot of people are sexually obsessed with, they think the tranny is here when they clearly are busy elsewhere. It's weird, I have never seen this much thinly veiled negging done to someone. I am starting to get jealous of all the attention a fucking tranny gets because it may seem negative on the surface but apply any psychology to it and it's pure jealousy or boners.
Legit, it's fucking obsessive and weird and most of the people that bring up said tranny will hyperfixate on looks so it gives away the sexual base that compels them to post.
It's neutral by reduction, in reality we don't know what it is because it would depend on whether life is truly a net positive or negative, which is unknowable. So whether life outweighs nonexistence is a matter of opinion.
I'm childfree, but if I ever magically changed my mind and my tubal ligation was reversed and I decided to have a kid, I would 100% abort a boy. I would never raise a future rape ape who might murder me one day because he thinks I didn't hug him enough or something.
And women already abort girls for being girls. It's better than that girl being born and abused/neglected for nothing other than her sex.
Often it's the case of an adult disabled person – let's call her Linda – seeing this rhetoric and interpreting it as meaning Linda deserves to die. Linda doesn't deserve to live. Sis, I'm happy you're alive and hope you continue to enjoy your life. Adult disabled people existing and being loved and respected has nothing to do with a choice a mother makes during her pregnancy. Your mother made a choice. Others may make different choices.
Personally, I can see why someone would terminate a pregnancy where the baby is severely disabled – e.g. they will live their lives in a vegetative state that requires constant medical surveillance. Especially if they live in the U.S., where this will plunge the family into millions of dollars of medical debt.
Idk why this thread descended into lookism shit, disabled people just coincidentally tend to also look ugly but they are not aborted bc of the ugly factor
>>163012>looks have no bearing on how people treat others
I'd agree but this is operating under the assumption that most modern mental illness is genetic, when its mainly environmental. Sure there are genetic components to it but the major reason its gotten sky high in the last 40 years or so, especially the last 20 years, isn't dysgenia, its increased too quick for that. Its because of environmental components, its a problem with society.
Diseases with a sure biological component like bipolar disorder and schizophrenia should be eradicated, but personality disorders, depression, anxiety, most cases of these really aren't a genetic defect, but they're results of their environments.
Honestly, incase of genetic defects causing these euthanasia should just be legal. People should have the right to end their own life anyways, but if people are provided medical assistance for a painless death then so many suicidal people would just kill themselves because now they don't have an excuse not to. Then their shitty genes would be removed from the gene pool, and its not like we really have a decent idea of the genes behind these disorders, its really unknown as of now.
She didn't say that you retard. Of course they matter but the reason disabled babies are aborted isn't because they're ugly its because they're fucking stupid and burdens on everyone they interact with.
When a mom carrying a down baby aborts their kid she doesn't think "his ugly mongoloid face will get me stared at in public", she thinks "my whole life will be dedicated to wiping this kids drool off of his chin, until I hit the grave I will be raisimg a massive toddler, I cant do that".
Its not like people are really capable of determining the looks of of their baby in utero to begin with. Ultrasound images are so fuzzy and babies all kinda look the same until theyre like 1 year, and even then their looks change drastically. A cute baby can be ugly as sin later on.
And retarded people, other than kids with down syndrome, usually are just ugly because of their hygene practices, their dietary practices, their vacant retard stare etc. There are some retarded kids I've seen who would look totally normal if they practiced hygene, lost weight, and didnt dress autistic.
Eugenics aren't inherently bad, it's just that they often lead down ideologicall slippery slopes that are quite abhorrent, that said, better to not be born than be born without arms or legs tbh ot with brain damage, the world isn't kind.
>>162390>I'd rathe burn alive eternally than not exist
retarded, existance in itself is suffering but there are things in life that can offer us relief and hapiness, deformities, mental damage, ilnesses… those get in the way of your happiness and the happiness of others, and not just a little, a LOT, the world is already a very hostile place that tries to destroy your happiness even if you are born "normal", hell, I was born in 1st world country and I have thought about suicide more than once even though I have it so good compared to a lot of other people, I could not even begin to understand the pain of someone like me but with a deformity that makes them hideous or way less useful, chracteristics the world hates.
People in the old days were mentally I’ll too, they just didn’t get diagnosed unless they were severe enough to be institutionalized. Schizophrenia and autism are associated with older parental age which is why they’re even more prevalent now.
This. Life is unironically suffering. We have the easiest and most peaceful lives out of all of our ancestors, and life is still very stressful and hard. So imagine how bad it was before modernisation, where you were constantly under threat of being invaded and raped by neighbouring tribes or sold into slavery.
idk but if i had consciousness as a fetus that'd i'd be born a paraplegic and someone would have to take care of me every day of my life, i'd want my mother to abort me.
and another thing, we really should NOT let two genetically adverse people reproduce. it's not fair to the child imo.
Nobody is born a paraplegic lmao