/b/ - Random

It is the natural thing to do. A Big family brings joy just as a partner, tasty good or good shelter.
Also, baby boomers enjoyed incredible standards of wellbeing and wealth despite being the product of a baby boom, economy is not a sum cero game.
If something the decrease of natality brings poverty since the active population declines.

>>220655
I myself wish I was never born, I can't cope with this competitive life as it is and I know it's gonna get worse. I'm so absorbed in my own misery that having a child didn't even once cross my mind.

>>220667
It sure as hell does not.

Lots of people have noticed that.
It's one of the biggest arguments regarding public schooling this decade, too.

The issue is "unstructured time."

One of the biggest questions regarding unstructured time in education has to do with whether or not public schools in Chicago which had essentially-zero unstructured time in the 1-3 decades ago timeframe are causally related or just correlative with Chicago's astronomical murder rate.

It could be a solution. If you apply more and more stress, more people will die off, either by suicide or not being able to compete and starving/getting sick/dying. Or they won't have kids because the conditions do not allow for it. Not very humane but overpopulation technically solved.

>>220655
I agree anon. After all it's the parent's money and success that will precede a child's success not education, employment or anything like that. How the middle class raise their kids is very different from how the ruling class raises kids. Ruling class kids are not particularly bright but well educated. They end up at the best universities because of status and wealth. All throughout the world university used to be free, now that and private schools are very expensive, almost a quarter million to have your child educated well. Middle class parents put the strangest and most useless expectations considering the ruling class is getting prestigious placements. Middle class children have to run where ruling class children snooze and working class children? Working class children go straight into the meat grinder. Little does anyone thing about teaching a "skill" like a second language or instrument or sport that will help a child coast through life if learned proficiently, which has to be made fun or children won't do it.
>>220678
Overpopulation is a meme. 1% of the world hoard 50% of the resources. The planet has enough resources it's just that those misappropriated to the few. Every human being alive today and in the past could fit inside of the state of Texas with a great deal of room to spare if cities weren't built like shit. https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/5560-the-overpopulation-myth

I'm not gonna lie OP.
I understand what you're getting at, millennial parents are absolute tiger moms/dads and it is very shocking but is your problem that they're treating kids like trash or that they're contributing to the "population problem"

>>220689
Both. But mostly that it's pointless to bring a kid into the world if they have to live that way.

As for the population problem. I honesty think the population is already in decline and its what people seek out naturally. It's a good thing. But wealth inequality turns these parents into freaks. What's the point of raising a kid if they have to live like that???

>>220688
first time i have ever been accused of being a scrote because you don't know about future-proof farming lol. Take a nap anon.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/05/vertical-farming-future-of-agriculture

>>220692
Either way the world is too crowded, and we don't need to add more to the streets. People who have kids now are insane.

Especially people who remember how free and easy culture was and how uncongested the world was twenty years ago.

>>220677
>To prioritize economy over stability and the availability of natural resources.
NTA, but economy and stability + availability of resources are closely interconnected. Prioritizing economy does prioritize stability and availability of resources. One might argue that's kinda what the economy is.

>Overpopulation
In the long term we need to stabilize population growth that's true, but shrinking the population to fast is also very bad. Japan has this exact problem, they have a shrinking population and so the younger generation is overworked trying to support the older generations. Ideally you can automate some jobs, but then you face backlash as job loss is always controversial.

>>220655
>Isn't this a pointless futile reach and expectation to put on a child?
Every generation has massive problems they have to overcome. This time might be actually unique, but also might not. In the 60s people thought the world would end due to the risk of nuclear war. People think the world might end now because of climate change but we'll figure it out.

>Natalism
I think it's more fair to give someone the chance to succeed even with the odds stacked against them than to never give them a chance at all.

It may only be common where you are. There are tons of middle class or poorer who don't care about their kids education. It may be tedious to do extracurriculars and actually get good grades but they'll actually be able to graduate university and get good jobs unlike the kids whose parents were uninvolved in their education.

>>220772
I'm not trying to be mean anon but it sounds like you don't understand or have maternal drives or leave the city much. If you think having kids is insane, choosing to be alive each day is 'insane'. Bad infrastructure and planning in a city can make it feel much more dense than it really is.
>>220788
The populations in western countries have also begun shrinking and will only continue to do so. Lack of resources is what stops people from wanting or being able to have children.
>In the 60s people thought the world would end due to the risk of nuclear war. People think the world might end now because of climate change but we'll figure it out.
Solid take anon, i am old enough to see many doomsday prophecies come and go. In the 2010s I was sure CERN would kill us all. Most of the things that really fuck us over catastrophically are are unexpected.

>>220847
Maternal drives or are you repeating what people tell you and trying to please and fit in with said people?

No I live in a small town that has EXPLODED in the last decade and is now unrecognizable after population explosion. The population where I live used to be 15k, now its around 90k and the town that used to be downright heavenly is a hellhole.

>People think the world might end now because of climate change but we'll figure it out.

>i am old enough to see many doomsday prophecies come and go. In the 2010s I was sure CERN would kill us all. Most of the things that really fuck us over catastrophically are are unexpected.

97% of insects dying off isn't fucking us and everything else over catastrophically? Or is it just unimportant to you what happens to the rest of the living systems around you since you're "certain" "they wont effect you in the long run."

After we surpass 1.5 - 2 degrees of warming that's it. There is no going back. Have you seen how much the government still props up the oil industry even now??

It's pretty obvious you can only stubbornly read, recall and discuss what you want to hear, what's pleasant to remember and repeat.

It isn't convincing.

>>220788

>To prioritize economy over stability and the availability of natural resources.
>NTA, but economy and stability + availability of resources are closely interconnected. Prioritizing economy does prioritize stability and availability of resources. One might argue that's kinda what the economy is.

I agree with the rest of your post, but show me where prioritizing economy is intrinisically linked to keeping track of natural resources?

For all of human history its been the opposite. Efforts to do so are won hard by a few small groups who are willing to spend the time and money to do so. Come on its economics, where do you think the bottom line comes in after all that?

>>220985
>Maternal drives or are you repeating what people tell you and trying to please and fit in with said people?
No anon this is from experience with my own friends who are mothers and always dreamed of being mothers. Not all of us are career girlbosses, I am but I respect the lifestyle of motherhood . Reproduction has psychological and physiological drives just like eating and sleeping, i don't blame anyone for having children when times are tough. Ask anyone about the constant nuclear threat of M.A.D in the 60's to 80's, people weren't sure if they'd live to see the next day. Childless women from that era have talked to me about their regrets of buying into the fear mongering.
>97% of insects dying off isn't fucking us and everything else over catastrophically? Or is it just unimportant to you what happens to the rest of the living systems around you since you're "certain" "they wont effect you in the long run."
We can't be sure of how this will affect us, there are predictions that tropical insects will migrate which from my country each summer seems increasingly true. Life often finds a way and if it doesn't, it doesn't.
>After we surpass 1.5 - 2 degrees of warming that's it. There is no going back. Have you seen how much the government still props up the oil industry even now??
Presuming that government or oil industry will exist when push comes to shove. I think people are angry enough only since 2022 to change things. I read about some technologies that could reduce the earths overall temps, like weather engineering. Don't be so pessimistic anon. I think we will see a huge uptick of domestic eco-terrorism in the next year or two.
>It's pretty obvious you can only stubbornly read, recall and discuss what you want to hear, what's pleasant to remember and repeat.
I thought that quite funny because I would describe you similarly. Anon, you seem very young and anxious and that's ok. Everybody has always thought the world was ending, maybe it will maybe it won't; what's the use in not living out our natural lives? I am especially not in the business of telling women not to reproduce because of my opinions nor am i trying to tell you what to think. Personally I am waiting five years to see if the world fixes it's shit before I have children, otherwise it's 10 dogs and a prepper homestead for me, so it's not like i don't get it.

>>220989
>show me where prioritizing economy is intrinsically linked to keeping track of natural resources?
So let's say you're in charge of a country. You want people to get food so they don't starve, to do that you make sure people farm the available land in a smart way so everyone gets to eat. That's keeping track of natural resources. Same thing with timber or iron mines or silk or whatever.

Sometimes the government outsources that work to other people (call that capitalism, I guess) but the end goal is the same. Sometimes people are greedy and overextend themselves, take more than they should, and we need to stop that. The economy is just the name you put on different methods of organizing resources amongst a group. From there you make a currency, which then needs regulation, which needs people to enforce that, which needs taxes, etc.

>>221115
>Sometimes people are greedy and overextend themselves, take more than they should, and we need to stop that.

Sometimes???
Do you know how many earths it would require for every country on earth to live consuming as much as the usa does?

Its so utterly bizarre you come in assuming people have ever shown desire to set limits. Do you hear how ridiculous you sound..

You do realize people strive for the best lifestyle everywhere, do you not?

If they properly measured and tracked natural resources the ocean wouldn't be on the brink of being a dead zone. Capitalism is a free for all, it's always been a free for all.

The economy doesn't organize anything. Supply and demand..the bottom lin and sometimes subsidy.. are the only guiding hands involved.

Seriously you still haven't learned all the ways companies strive to reverse environmental protection? How much they skirt blame and responsibility for it? Why do you think they spend billions of dollars lobbying for their own "justice" on capital hill? Nobody up there is remotely concerned with "just having enough to eat"

And tracking and divying up grain, metals, textiles does not even count as efficiently managing natural resources. If you're bulldozing your carbon sink consistently for development/agriculture you clearly haven't factored everything in.

Hell you're not even accounting for inflation or accessibility. Look at the way the water crisis is managed in Arizona, and tell me the government efficiently tracks. They never have. And what they HAVE tracked is a joke.

They might as well be dumping water in the Gobi desert in a lot of your western states. Look at how poorly rainwater is retained in reservoirs in California, how much of it is dumped into unsustainable agriculture. You realize how completely out of touch you sound?

>>221014
And you sound like the kind of moron who would pretend not to hear hurricane blared in your face.

We can't know how truly horrible it could be either. You don't sit on your ass when someone tells you your house has a 50% chance of being swallowed up by a wildfire.

There is no "well who knows what could happen, let's just sit here doing the same dumbass thing"

No of course not so lets bring 10 more mouths into the equation, for our own personal greed and satisfaction. There's only a 60% chance they will suffer.

All I hear is how dulled your Maternal senses are, if anything. That's not Maternal. Someone with REAL Maternal instincts couldn't be paid a million dollars to bring children into that kind of hellish scenario. All I hear is how much you want to listen to the most comforting lies to continue doing the same dumbass thing most people are still only doing for social points.

I know the "maternal" instinct you're talking about, and most friends I know with kids are living a shadow of the existence they had before with inflation, the price of housing. That's not even factoring in the price of childcare, education, retirement. Having kids these days is a complete financial hellhole and ripoff no matter how badly you want them.

>>221139
>Do you know how many earths it would require for every country on earth to live consuming as much as the usa does?
I don't know why you seem to want to compare everyone to the USA. The world is big and diverse Nona. I'm not talking about third world either, plenty of places in the EU are doing fine with their environmental impact and improving all the time.

>You do realize people strive for the best lifestyle everywhere, do you not?
"Best lifestyle" depends a lot on where you live. Think Native Americans vs Brazil vs USA vs India vs Sweden. Again, the world is big and diverse.

>Capitalism is a free for all, it's always been a free for all.
Sure, but no where really has 'pure' capitalism, even in the US. People have to follow the law that they all vote on, or risk the consequences. You can argue some government have harmful practices sure, but that's because the local citizens are allowing that to happen. If you live in the US for example, and you don't want oil companies ruining the environment, then get your community together and vote for politicians that will reign them in. Easier said than done of course, but the systems are in place for that to happen with some effort.

>tell me the government efficiently tracks
I'm not arguing people do a good job, I'm arguing that they're trying. In reality resource management is actually very difficult. Saying 'just do a better job' is naive and lacks perspective.

You can be as pessimistic as you want, but in the long term we humans will survive just fine, only with some adjustments for new circumstances, like we always have.