Autoandrophilia / wanting to be a dude but not really Anonymous 59650
Before I get into it I’ll say that I’m using this term more loosely than the sexual fetish sense, moreso the abstract ego-satisfaction of being able to occupy maleness in ways one finds appealing. After a long time feeling lost about what the fuck my gender identity was doing episodically, I decided that my fits of envy for wanting to look like men / behave within an idealized masculine archetype were the cosmic answer to AGP, except with the outright fetish angle dulled.
The kind of boy I want to be isn’t one that actually exists, but the compulsion towards it doesn’t seem to care too much about that. I want to be an oldschool 90’s seme in a suit. I want the broad shoulders and flat chest that make shirts look the very specific way they look on dudes in their prime. I want to be able to occupy a variety of male archetypes that no one person actually exists as but seem to keep popping up in culture, larger than life. I don't want to interact with them or posses them, I want to /be/ them.
Who here /AAP/?
>>59650>After a long time feeling lost about what the fuck my gender identity was doing episodically,
You're on the wrong site, girlie.
If you're calling me a moid, I am a cis female and at the end of the day I want to stay that way.
If you're going the radfem route and saying that gender identiy is BS, yeah maybe, but it's a useful concept to be able to have when your brain is making weird balloon animals out of your self-concept in the form of envying the chest of a male and fantasizing about being called daddy.
>>59660> I am a cis female
Sorry, that doesn't exist. I think you meant to say woman.
I think it would be more useful to consider why you have these feelings instead
Woman can not sexualize gender the same way men do.
>it's a useful concept to be able to have
It is absolutely never useful. Stop reading yaoi.
tumblr fujos want to:
See your location
I'm just trynna explain that I don't actually have nor want a peepee in the clearest way possible simmer down>>59662
You underestimate my self-awareness on this subject. I know I want the physiology because I want to like how I look in a narcissistic way reminiscent of the more basic definition of AGP, and I want to hang out in the male power archetype that no dude actually exists within because it seems like a thrilling place to be. It’s not a belief in the superiority of one particular sex, it’s an acknowledgement that the ‘Divine Masculine’ and ‘Divine Feminine’ archetypes are just serving different flavors in popular consciousness. No person has absolute control of how other people perceive them, even if they ask for it to be so (even if other people are nice and don’t ever point it out), so the fantasy of being able to exude a certain energy by Being The Ideal and being received as such still has legs even if they’re not strictly just or moral. >>59667
I agree with this! I think /AAP/ is probably different in women than it is in men, but look at the absolute sea of temporary teenage Aidens and tell me that women can’t get their attraction wires mixed up sometimes.
You say you want to, but that it's not in a sexual way. So what kind of "want" are we talking about here? Where do you picture yourself and what do you picture yourself doing when you're this idealized man? How do other people in your fantasy relate to you?
I'm doubtful that you're tapping into a platonic ideal of masculinity when you imagine yourself as a 90s Japanese erotica archetype with what seem to be symbols of capitalistic success. Fantasies are subjective - they're informed by the cultural surroundings we exist in and it's possible to glean a general average from them, but they're still ultimately our own and tied to our tastes.
Yeah, but you can’t deny I exist, and there are more like me.
Asami (pictured in OP) is my personal favorite example of my absurdity because it’s so fundamentally ridiculous what he does and how the world relates to him and what he gets away with. However, there is kind of a haunting figure that seems to come up time and time again in fantasied consciousness and is often tied to a certain brand of romantic masculinity- it’s AGP’s cousin because it’s getting satisfaction from wanting to occupy the unreal vision of the other. No man is born with a power suit on, but we’re metaphorical creatures, and capitalistic success usually means being able to have power/regulate/take care of others in a particular sort of way, which is a bit more salient.
I think I want it for myself so I can posses another in this absolute/unreal sort of way, like rolling up alongside a fine young sub and being able to make them feel small in the daddy way instead of the mommy way- and don’t get me wrong, being mommy is fine too. My dom ambition doesn’t go away when my little episodes subside and I don’t view one as being superior to another, I just know that it’s a bit more unusual to cross-gender fantasize this way.
It’s metaphysical kink, but it seems to have enough to do with an abstract sense of libido payoff to still be a kink.
reading your words is the equivalent to turning my head into apple sauce
Please elaborate on what I'm doing wrong here, because I'm kind of at a loss and didn't anticipate this much blowback.
is it like wanting to be masculine and dominating while still being a woman?
So, because you're working on a highly theoretical and multifaceted view of fetishes, I'll give you mine and we'll work towards the middle.
I believe that our fetishes are fundamentally inexplicable. We have certain arbitrary images we obsess over, especially when we're young, and those obsessions end up taking a sexual nature. When we try to "explain" the origin of those fetishes - "I like spanking because I was spanked as a child and I want that sensation," "I like spanking because I wasn't spanked as a child and I want to be punished", etc - we're not actually uncovering any intelligible connection between the image and some "reason". Rather, we're basically creating a more abstract fetish: a dynamic that resonates with us sexually. This "explanation" is only correct insofar as it itself is something that gets us off, not because it has any etiological value.
I agree with you that, once you get interested in trying to "explain" your fetishes, these new explanation-fetish abstractions makes them take on a metaphorical, literary element, and I'm sure they get you off because they're fetishes you made for yourself. But those explanations are yours and yours alone. Others may have the same starting image you do - wanting to be the attractive man they saw in someplace or another - but, just in the same way that one person can want to be spanked because they were spanked and another wants to be spanked because they weren't, the actual "explanations" are all as arbitrary as the starting image itself.
You get off on the image of being a yaoi man. People at CC may have a problem with that because it seems like you're idolizing masculinity, and they may also have a problem with it because you're coming to this idolization with a very highfalutin pseudo-academic philosophy that smells tumblr-esque. I don't have a problem with your fantasy because I believe fantasies can be perfectly compartmentalized from our normal lives, and we can recognize that what gets us off is still not how we should see the world. I don't have a problem with how you type because I'm also a pompous pseudo-academic. But I think you're gonna have trouble trying to get anyone else on board here.
Very puritan sounding statement.I hope you don't think woman are devoid of sexuality.
Let us assume that you are correct that what you are feeling is the female equivalent of Autogynephilia, just for argument's sake. Do you think a moid talking about this to other moids that are not autogynephiliacs would just be accepted? No, most "normal" moids would harshly socially reject the AGP as an external threat to their sense of self and gender. Why should it be any different when you're talking about AAP to other women? Anyone that agrees with you are rare and those that don't have their identity attacked by your mere existence. Especially on a forum as latent with radfems as this one.
There’s two main parts to my experience and they don’t always happen at the same time. Not trying to invent the rules of aap, just saying my experience.
1. Seeing a particularly good male body and being hit by envy instead of desire. I know I lead with anime boys as a bit of self-mockery but there are a bunch of IRL examples that I go to as well- It’s like my brain sees something appealing but It doesn’t register as the ‘right’ kind of desire. This envy is usually fleeting and not that impactful but honestly it can get more than a little uncomfortable if I dwell on it for too long. This isn’t my only response to the male form but it’s difficult to tell who will activate normal desire and what will set the envy off.
2. The novel rush of being the romantic male figure. It’s a kind of person that doesn’t actually exist, but the ambition is to be something like an alpha male provider figure with the kind of dangerous edge more commonly associated with (fictional lets say) dudes. It’s a daydream about being able to produce authentic paternal energy and be received that way as well. It’s complete arse but it’s a fun dream.
I suppose I could try being more butch in real life, but the truth is I think I have this fantasy because I’m not really like this at all, so I would need to change a lot about myself to get there.
Thanks I suppose, but while we’re on the topic I kind of want to pick on your “fetish explanation as secondary fetish” belief since it seems a bit unfair. I know the spanking yin-yang is the classic critique of a formulaic explanation as to why people develop certain fetishes, but you also have to keep in mind that different people react to the world in different ways, even when they’re young and having formative experiences. People explain their lives as they understand them, and all they have to go off is what feels right- the explanation isn’t always a secondary lie created to generate more thrill, it might just be a highly personalized account of how they respond/have responded to the world.
Two people can come to the same conclusion two different ways and still be telling the truth- picking on anything beyond that begins to undermine anyone’s basic capacity to be able to explain themselves and their motivations in their own lives, since it’s always a bit more than they can know. People might have predispositions towards certain impressions/conclusions, singe lord knows what I’ve got doesn’t seem to have any ties to anything concrete, but people can try to follow the thread and understand themselves. Everyone can get it wrong or sublimate, but people can be right as well.
I went a bit on the defensive because I sensed that Anons wanted to do the ‘you should interrogate your kinks’ thing, suggesting that I had some kind of internalized misogyny and all this would go away if I just reached nirvana. The truth is not really, I’m just not that ‘attracted to myself’ usually and imaging myself as male is a fascinating dimension that’s more rooted in my attraction to dudes than anything else. It’s attraction that manifests as envy/the desire to self-insert.
I probably shouldn’t have said ‘gender identity’ around here, but I was at a loss for what the hell to call the impulse to identify in the first person as a member of the opposite sex. I’m at least providing an alternative explanation that isn’t dysphoria, which would be the current cultural default.
>>59675>you can't deny I exist
What's with gendertards and MUH EXISTENCE? Of course you exist. You will continue to exist even after you wake up from your stupid gender religion.
Dude I'm the one calling /myself/ a delusional fetishist. I'm not demanding to be seen as an actual moid, it's just a fantasy and I'm using the auto-gender-philia model to put it in a box so that it has an explanation outside of dysphoria.
I just wanted to talk about fantasizing being a dude in a semi-erotic context, I'm sure I've seen a handful of posts around here to that effect before.
>>59697>Do you think a moid talking about this to other moids that are not autogynephiliacs would just be accepted?
If there’s one thing I’ve learned from this thread it’s that I shouldn’t overestimate how much time everyone here spends on /lgbt/ and /gif/, because all things considered the idea is winning by a landslide on there and the boys are just jaded enough to start going with it.
>most "normal" moids would harshly socially reject the AGP as an external threat to their sense of self and gender.
They do that with most things, that’s pretty unremarkable. A moid going out of their way to be normal is a hyper-restrictive paranoid mess because male gender performance is really restrictive and easily threatened, hence fragile masculinity. It’s unexpected to get this response out of women.
Your restrictive ideas about how a woman should respond are probably why your malleable brain is now engaging a putrid, fetishistic gender-switching fantasy.
>>59732>it might just be a highly personalized account of how they respond/have responded to the world.
I agree. But, as you said, an explanation like this is fundamentally tied to what "feels right."
We already engage in huge amounts of self-editing, cognitive dissonance, and various blocks (conscious and otherwise) when it comes to trying to understand even the things that can be mostly verified outside of our own experience, like what we were doing last week and why. When it comes to something so deeply fraught emotionally as our sexual urges and with recollections of things so far away like what we did when we were alone as a child, I simply don't believe that we can overcome those mental obstacles and grab something through pure introspection. Whatever explanation "feels good" is whatever will somehow make it through all of those filters of self-resistance and editing. But with something like sex, unless there's trauma that needs to be looked at with clear outside eyes, I don't really see a problem with this self-constructed narrative, because everything in the realm of fetishes is imaginary and detached from our "real" selves anyway.
I accept that this self-constructed narrative is "true," if we accept "true" to mean "something that feels right and gives us a framework to interact with the world consistently." You have come to an explanation that feels right to you and gives you a language to talk about it, and I believe you when you say you're sure it's not internalized misogyny. But it's your explanation and your language; any similarities it may have with others will be coincidental, and any differences you have with others will be mostly unresolvable.>>59736
/lgbt/ is largely trans-friendly, which CC is not. /gif/ is a porn board, which CC is largely against. Sorry, pal.
>>59736>If there’s one thing I’ve learned from this thread it’s that I shouldn’t overestimate how much time everyone here spends on /lgbt/ and /gif/, because all things considered the idea is winning by a landslide on there and the boys are just jaded enough to start going with it.
AAP in particular is popular there?>They do that with most things, that’s pretty unremarkable.
Both genders do, it's just more visible for males.>It’s unexpected to get this response out of women.
Not really, you overestimate the difference in genders when it comes to behavioral policing. Moids are a lot more violent and upfront with how they believe other moids should behave, but women will use social tactics instead, in the end, both are using different tools to ascertain the same goal. You are currently on a social website, and thus it is completely expected to experience the full force of gender-based behavioral policing.
Mmm, suppose I’ve learned the hard way. I cast the net hoping to get a discussion going with people who might have similar experiences just for the freedom of being able to talk about it since I knew my experience probably wouldn’t be the defining one.
Agp and the way people understand agp is popular there- /lgbt/ talks about it a lot as a concept while /gif/ lives it in it’s threads. /lgbt/ has more people willing to try and figure out things within the agp framework so aap has been growing as a concept, but I figured I would get a better discussion if I went to the female imageboard to talk about it. Whew, I was wrong.
I know that women aren’t inherantly soft and infinitely accepting of all things, every group has methods of social control. It’s just a question of what they find offensive or what they think is worth stopping, and that’s what surprised me- toxic masculinity is a pathological obsession with infallibility and strength which bristles at a bunch of relatively petty things, but I don’t understand what’s causing the existential threat in other women if a woman who isn’t taking it seriously goes “hey you ever want to be a hot dude because I do sometimes, it seems fun”.
Some men have a hate-on for ‘sissies’ because of the violation of the gender code they sweat over, particularly to be antithetical to all things feminine (seen by them as weak and humiliating), but I don’t get what a group of women would find undermining or threatening about the idea of being a boy in your brain for a little bit.
>>59751>Agp and the way people understand agp is popular there- /lgbt/ talks about it a lot as a concept while /gif/ lives it in it’s threads. /lgbt/ has more people willing to try and figure out things within the agp framework so aap has been growing as a concept
/gif/ is a moid dominated space, which is why you came here, but why did you think a moid based concept would be accepted a in a female space? Because moid's believed it commonly effected females?>toxic masculinity is a pathological obsession with infallibility and strength which bristles at a bunch of relatively petty things, but I don’t understand what’s causing the existential threat in other women if a woman who isn’t taking it seriously goes “hey you ever want to be a hot dude because I do sometimes, it seems fun”. >not taking it seriously>comparing it to the pathological disorder categorized as Autogynephilia
Do you think the moids that Autogynephilia use that word to describe "oh gosh it's just so much fun to imagine being a girl"? No, it's used to describe men that want to take on a feminine appearance in a sexual manner while (and this is why the term came to be to describe something separate from transexuals) having sex with women. This notion of "not serious" does not apply to the pathological concept of autogynephilia if that's what you're comparing it to.
Just because the term "fetish" has been chewed up and spit out by the internet doesn't mean in this specific context it doesn't refer to it's original concept, as a (in current jargon) paraphilia, a sexual disorder.
Furthermore, notice how you treat what the moids are tripping over as petty things, but did not expect women to trip over as petty things. You're still following the unstated assumption that women are somehow superior in this regard. If you do rely on this unstated assumption, then the obvious result of comparing yourself to the (perceived) inferior in the form of AAP will be met with backlash. Why do women do it? For the same reason moids are doing it, just not as visibly.>Some men have a hate-on for ‘sissies’ because of the violation of the gender code they sweat over, particularly to be antithetical to all things feminine (seen by them as weak and humiliating),
And most females here see anything masculine as being antithetical (seen by them as violent and stupid). Which is made funnier by the fact you're still operating in that framework by labeling the moids activities for genderpolicing as stupid.>but I don’t get what a group of women would find undermining or threatening about the idea of being a boy in your brain for a little bit.
For the same reason the moids do. Again, do you think the majority of anons posting here have a good opinion on men? Even the none radfems still think men are violent/stupid/unemotional assholes. These are all negative traits, the unstated assumption is that being female is a positive trait. You then go and enter into this space talking about how much you love the idea of assuming male traits in a positive way, threatening the unstated assumption.
Your fetish flirts with the language of trans-inclusive gender theory, and idolizes moidhood. Unfortunately, this is just a room reading problem - if you looked around enough, you'd have seen that neither are looked at kindly here, so a fetish that involves the latter and uses the former is unlikely to fly here.
For what it's worth, I think it's interesting to at least think about, and I think you're able to get off to the thought of being a moid and still recognize post-nut that moids - especially the powerful ones you're fantasizing about - are still likely to be harmful to women and run a society that is harmful to women. But, yeah. Lurk moar.
I used to always play as a reverse trap in the harvest moon games when it was possible. I used to only really be able to watch BL/gay romance but although I'd like to be a sexy seme with a cute uke, I preferred imaging would it would feel like for both parties.
Oooh, I've never played a harvest moon that allowed for that option before (to my knowledge). Do you have a preference for what kind of seme-archetype you like to imagine or is it just the idea of being able to top?
I like the borderline yandere ones,the ones with a fixation on their uke. Usagi from junjou romantica is the most obvious example.
I was just reading and enjoying a fic with one of those the other day. I think it communes well with my own single-minded side, minus the IRL guilt of being a stalker.
Women can have sexuality?? I meant that its men who define themselves by sex. Women don't use the same "Sex" mentality that men have and thus they can't sexualize becoming another gender like men can
Off the top of my head women that define themselves by sex include Belle Delphine and Marilyn Monroe. If you want someone more "intellectual", I suppose the 50 Shades of Grey author counts as well.
I think she meant more the mentality part, these women at least sell sex/a sexy persona to men, they are not personally turned on by themselves and by being a woman, which many trans women are, like when they have gender euphoria.
I sort of think the same. There has always been a part of me that has wanted to live as a successful man. It just has a certain appeal to me. And also I would never troon out and mutilate myself to feel like a "man". I'm perfectly fine living as a woman but I think it would be cool to be a man for a day. It's that ego-satisfaction that you mentioned that is interesting to me.
How long until Belle Delphine an heroes I wonder
>>59808>they are not personally turned on by themselves and by being a woman,
This isn't about what specifically the moid is latching onto, but the act in and of itself the moid is latching onto something. Even if we use that definition, dommes that unironically enjoy being dommes as a fetish do exist.
Anime men are wasted on all you thirsty dish-clots.
>>59650>I don't want to interact with them or posses them, I want to /be/ them.>the abstract ego-satisfaction of being able to occupy maleness in ways one finds appealing
try roleplaying? the character you're describing (dominant, built dude) is pretty popular on rp sites. just don't describe them as a seme (because some people might bitch).
i've been writing here: https://orsterra.jcink.net
and it's pretty based.
I don't want to be a man, but I'd love to have a dick because fucking a man would be much hotter than getting fucked. I'm not desperate enough to wear some shitty plastic strap-on though.
But fingertips aren't a pleasure center like a peepee can be, though.
Be the one doing the fucking.
That's the only difference between being the fucker and getting fucked.
You could always find a man weaker than you if it helps to feel like the one who is fucking rather than the one being fucked.
Isn't it a matter of perspective? Moids have fetishized pEnEtRaTiOn to be the active act instead of enclosing a boner and exhausting it.
I don't think the fuck/be fucked distinction is anything more than cultural conditioning.
>>59672>It’s not a belief in the superiority of one particular sex, it’s an acknowledgement that the ‘Divine Masculine’ and ‘Divine Feminine’ archetypes are just serving different flavors in popular consciousness. No person has absolute control of how other people perceive them, even if they ask for it to be so (even if other people are nice and don’t ever point it out), so the fantasy of being able to exude a certain energy by Being The Ideal and being received as such still has legs even if they’re not strictly just or moral.
This explains well how I feel.
I think I actually have the "masculine" vibe/personality/etc. but in a woman's body it's just not Ideal. And a masculine woman is not treated like a man but a masculine woman. I don't like it when people say "um it's sexual", because not everyone is an aiden (I suspect OP is, though).
Oops I misread the OP, I apologize.
It's pleasing to see someone be pleased by you. Isn't it? Nobody likes a dead fish on the ground. So what's the problem with pleasing someone by hand? Moids do it all the time, or at least fantasize about it.
As I teen I thought I was more like a guy due to my interests and probably autism.
I don't want to be a dude for real but I like to imagine I am one when I mastrubate.
So basically like those X-change gifs that people with AGP love but the other way around instead?
not sure what that is.
I just dont like to imagine myself when mastrubating and I find it hotter when there are two guys. I am also not into 3d, only drawings or my imagination work for me.
Despite that I like having sex as a normal woman with my bf, what I fap to and what I live out are always two different things.