/hb/ - Health & Beauty

I also get the line "Oh but you're so young, you have so much time to think about what you want" like I didn't just explain that I already did.

At one point I considered selling my eggs and it really upset my boyfriend at the time, who I had already told that did not want kids and he said he was fine with that. He physically put his hands on my hips and said "No, you can't do that!" Luckily I got out of that one.

I don't want kids, nor do I like them, nor do I like modern parents who let their kids scream and bother people in public (on trains and buses). Yesterday I was sat in front of an Italian family with 2 kids and at some point one of the kids started yelling "Chocolate! Chocolate! Chocolate! Chocolate!" repetitively for 5 minutes straight without the mother or the father doing anything to keep him quiet, everyone else on the bus was silent and he was so fucking loud I wanted to box him around. The father even spurred him on the whole time.

I've had the whole "but you'll change your mind" talk and I honestly feel like parents say that with good intentions in mind, but it usually comes off as selfish and I've met many people who only want grandkids so they have someone to play with until they get bored and let the parents do all the hard work.

All that said, I really can't stand 2 things:
1) people who refer to kids as "demon spawn", "crotchfruit" and the parents as "breeders". I think they're unhinged, if you have that much hatred for kids and their parents you need to seek help.
2) People who go through IVF instead of adopting. There's so many hungry children out there, if you can't have one through regular means maybe it's time to look into adoption instead of paying out the arse to create a baby artificially.

>"you just haven't met the right man yet!"
>"ooooh you'll change your mind when you're older!"
>"yeah but how does your boyfriend feel about that?"
>"you'll regret it once it's too late!"

Yeah, no, McFucking kill yourself.
I swear I have an mini-aneurysm every time I hear one of these lines, and you're guaranteed to have one regurgitated at you as soon as the discussion veers towards the subject of kids, or your lack thereof.
I simply don't have a single maternal bone in my body and I never have. My sister recently had a child and when holding her it was like I was handling a foreign object. Everybody was coo'ing and aww'ing over her and I just wanted to get her out of my arms ASAP.
I'm not gonna rule out the possibility that I may one day change my mind, but I genuinely cannot imagine a single scenario where that could ever be the case. My partner and I are both vegans and part and parcel of that territory is often a bad case of the misanthropies, and I'm personally an anti-natalist.
It's not only not wanting to push a squalling sack of ego and blight out of my vagina though, birthing children is actually a process that irreparably damages your body. Most people don't know that our bodies don't make our own calcium, so when a foetus is developing inside you guess where its bones comes from? IT FUCKING STEALS IT RIGHT OFF YOUR OWN SKELETON, and that shit NEVER gets replaced. This is why mothers with multiple children are at such high risk of things like arthritis and osteoporosis.

I've often heard people say to me that I'm selfish for not wanting kids, but to me what's more selfish is bringing into this world a person I know is going to go on to pollute, destroy and inadvertently inflict suffering on millions of other beings. To live is to suffer and to suffer is to live. I'm not gonna say I'm not happy to be alive, but my ego isn't so big that I can't admit that the world wouldn't be a considerably better place without mine and billions others presence.

>>103

>at one point I considered selling my eggs and it really upset my boyfriend at the time
I was looking into that only just last week but once I did a bit of research and discovered how damaging the entire procedure it on your body I kinda closed my laptop.

>>104
>1) people who refer to kids as "demon spawn", "crotchfruit" and the parents as "breeders". I think they're unhinged, if you have that much hatred for kids and their parents you need to seek help.

You must have had a really safe, secure and comfortable life up until now if you genuinely can't understand a person's misanthropy.
I 100% agree with 2) though. It's the same with people that buy pets from breeders instead of rescue and they fucking know that they're funding an abhorrently cruel and unethical industry.

>>105
>Most people don't know that our bodies don't make our own calcium, so when a foetus is developing inside you guess where its bones comes from? IT FUCKING STEALS IT RIGHT OFF YOUR OWN SKELETON, and that shit NEVER gets replaced.

I wish the actual health effects of pregnancy were taught to people! No one EVER talks about it from a medical standpoint until you're actually pregnant, that's so crazy! It's not just pickles-and-ice-cream cravings, swollen feet, and morning sickness, jfc. My friend's mother lost several teeth during her pregnancy, I doubt people would be so high and mighty about having kids if that shit happened.

For US anons, here's something to throw at those "why don't you want to have kids" sayers:
http://www.npr.org/2017/05/12/528098789/u-s-has-the-worst-rate-of-maternal-deaths-in-the-developed-world

>>107
Not only that, but I doubt so many people would be as keen to push having kids if they learned about the magic that is diastasis recti - lit. abdominal wall separation. Your abdominal muscles can literally split in two to create room for your expanding stomach. This is one of the factors that leads to the permenant 'mum tum' many mothers suffer from, which is not just loose skin but also abdominal fat no longer having a foundation to cling to. The only way to repair is surgery to knit the muscles back together.

I'm curious, what do you guys make out your life is going to be like when you're middle aged? I always used to say that I'd never want kids, mostly because of superficial reasons about how it damages your body and how expensive it is to raise one, but looking at my older childless relatives and comparing how their lives are to someone like my mom, it's making me consider otherwise.

>>109
What are your childless relatives like? I know plenty of childless couples who live super full lives of art, music, hobbies, festivals, travel, etc. Children provide something that other things probably won't to the same extent, but they also take up a lot of time that could be spent doing literally thousands of other fulfilling things.

>>106
>You must have had a really safe, secure and comfortable life up until now if you genuinely can't understand a person's misanthropy.
Misanthropy is not the norm, it's a sign of mental illness.

>>111
Unsafe, insecure and uncomfortable lives are also a leading cause of mental illness, what a coincidence!

>>111
And I think your wilful ignorance to the destructive reality of human nature is a sign of terminal idiocy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

>>109
I'd be happy having a SO and a dog or maybe other pets and just live my life.

This will come across as incredibly bitter and vitriolic, but I saw this post https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/6kh5q2/my_15_month_old_son_just_got_over_being_sick_in/
and I stared at it in disgust. It's so repulsive to me, everything about it - the weird deformed child, its smug misshapen grin, the parents' egotistical compulsion to share it with the world. I don't know, everything about it makes me want to sew my vagina shut.

>>115
I hate kids as much as the next person in this thread but that's kinda fucked up

>>116
Sorry sis :c

>>113
>destructive reality of human nature
lol seek help

>>118
What's the temperature like inside your ignorance bubble today sis?

>>109
If you think about getting a kid just to fill a void you will have at an older age you should start to ask yourself why this seems to be a valid fear for you.

It seems like in your opinion a child has to be there, to fill up some void. Why do you think a child is the answer? And not getting to know yourself, having hobbies, traveling, relationships to other adults etc.?
Or why do you even think there will be this void?

Honestly only get a kid if you want to be a mother, with all up and downs this includes. There is no other good reason.

Honestly i'm really in doubt about having a child or not having a child.
I have a deep down longing to have a happy 50's family with my future husband and all that, and i'm not particularly career-driven and have pretty basic hobbies, which are basically cooking and cleaning and i feel i wouldn't fit an office at all, and i also really like children and they're very drawn to me, i'm often the chosen babysitter in family gatherings because of that.
But then what haunts me at night is: What if i break up with him? Then i'll have to care for the child completely alone which is something i do not desire since i grew up fatherless and it made me have several "daddy issues". What if i find it unfulfilling or tiresome and regret it? Besides from damaging the body, it also takes its toll on the mind. I do not want to end up as a frustrated middle aged mom who wants her children to grow up and leave her alone already so she can finally do the stuff she didn't because of the kids.

>long term bf wants kids and I don't
>I insist the only situation it would happen is if I get to stay at home so I can be lazy other than childcare
>he continues to idealize having kids but never gets his life together enough to afford them
>we are getting older and reaching the age where having them would raise risk of disorders

I win. No kids.

I kind of only want kids so I can be a better parent than all the crap ones I see on public transport, but I'm pretty sure that's the worst reason to procreate/adopt in the world, except perhaps just to kill time, like what >>109 said.

>>115
Have you come across the Hartley Hooligans?

>>3402
pls spoiler

I don't hate kids like many of the anons in this thread (they're pretty cute and fun to be around imo), I just couldn't handle parenthood and I'm extremely tokophobic. Finances aren't even an issue, but being so responsible for a future adult's life is terrifying. What if I do everything right but they still become a criminal or abuser?

I do hate when people insist I'll have baby fever or whatever in my thirties. Stop trying to control my life! I know myself pretty well.

>>102
honestly you're so lucky you don't want to, I'd really rather wait to get married and have kids but i have to hurry up and find a husband ASAP before i get too ugly and my eggs aren't as good.

>>102
Can I be completely honest?
I don't want kids because I don't want to wreck my body, and because I wouldn't have any of my husband's attention anymore.
I spent my youth being the ugly duckling and now in my mid-20s people have finally started treating me better, and I want to experience as much of this as possible before I get kids. My bf's in his early 30s and seems to be angling for marriage and kids but honestly he can wait.

>>3409
Hedge your bets by having three or four. That way even if one dies in traffic, and another ends up gay, your genetic legacy can still carry on

>>105
>>107
>Most people don't know that our bodies don't make our own calcium, so when a foetus is developing inside you guess where its bones comes from? IT FUCKING STEALS IT RIGHT OFF YOUR OWN SKELETON, and that shit NEVER gets replaced.

Come on, are you buying this bullshit?
Yep our bodies don't make their own calcium, they don't make their own vitamins either (except for D and K) and there is also a long list of minerals, do you think you stole yours from your mother and made a nice little stock without her consent while in her womb?

People eat, and yeah the baby will take calcium from the mother's bones if and only if she doesn't get enough of it from food.
Also do you really think that calcium in our bodies never gets replaced? Maybe I should stop eating those super expensive organic almonds, then.

>>120
The void comes from the inevitable hormones that will flood your system once you hit your 30s.
Some women pull off filling this void with other people's kids and pets, but I've definitely had a lot of friends dead set on not having children their entire life, to jump ship as soon as they hit their 30s and get pregnant on purpose even if it's with a boyfriend they weren't serious with.
A reason to have kids when you're younger is if you have any doubt that these hormones will kick your ass and make you lonely depressed bitter and feel the need to have a child, it's better you bite the bullet sooner in life than later.
People who wait til their 30s to have kids are a key factor to the rise in rates of autism, and if you wait and try to have kids when it's truly too late, you might end up that crazy lady from the retirement home who walks her cats around in public in a stroller.

>>123
That's actually a good reason, it means if you were a parent you would want better things for them.

>>4465
Another reason to do it sooner than later, is your body will be less damaged after the fact and easier to train into bouncing back to normal. If you wait and then suddenly decide to have kids when you're heading for your 40s, the physical and emotional damage hits a lot harder and is much harder to ever heal from.
One last factor that makes women break in their 30s is the idea that they may die alone because they chose to have no children, which is also a valid fear and kind of a selfish reason to have kids admittedly, but you are much less likely to die alone that way.
It'd be nice to see as many folks dedicated to bringing back intimate multi generation households as there are people dead set against having children and making sure their ancestors lineage and family history dies with them.

>>4465
There's no such thing as a hormone flood or a biological clock or whatever. If anything, it's the social pressure to have kids that causes it. Why do you care though? Let childfree people be childfree and let parents be parents.

>>4465
i really want to be a mom but im 23 and theres no man anywhere in my life, its so far away. im scared of waiting until my 30s to have a kid. if i am not engaged or in a commited relationship by the time im 26 im gonna just give up on being a mom….

>>4469
>tfw 28 and still wanting to be a mom

it's really only in your forties that you have to start worrying about your body being an obstruction to having children, don't give up.

>>4468
That's actually wrong but okay, tell yourself whatever makes you feel better about reality

>>4465
The joke's on you, I want to be a crazy old lady obsessively caring for animals.

I am extremely anti-natalist and pro-extinction of the human race. I enjoy being around children, but they will all inevitably grow up to be selfish and awful adults no matter how they're raised. People will just keep abusing, raping, and killing each other as long as we exist.

>inb4 why not just kill yourself?
I'm a coward, and I'm no longer super-depressed. Just have to waste time enjoying this shithole before I can finally peaceout.

>>4474
Overdose is an option, but clearly something about life on earth makes you desire to stick around.
First step toward inner peace is acknowledging the world has always been shit and always will be and acceptance is seeing the blessings of momentary happiness and love that exist beyond within the eternal cycle alongside suffering.
I've been there done that with the existential crisis, nothing you're saying is wrong your attitude about life is just pessimistic and you clearly are responsible for your own sadness, forgive yourself.

>>4482
Only saying this because keeping a negative mindset like that, nurturing it, and wearing it on your sleeve is contagious and is the kind of attitude that makes people selfish, jaded, and awful.

>>4482
Well, like I said I'm no longer super depressed. I'm not focusing on this (or my own self hatred) much anymore unless it comes up like itt.
I probably came across as a bit emotional and intense, but there are definitely things I enjoy. Like I said I do want to be a crazy animal lady and maybe share my life with a partner. And I'm not often mean to people I interact with on the daily, in fact I take interest in individuals often and get invested in their issues.

But I'm still against the human race continuing. It's a weird relationship.

>>4484
Understood then, we all have self hate we just treat it differently when really it's a very powerful motivational tool you can useyto try and be better to people, but you seem like you already get that.
I look forward to something a nuclear apocalypse taking us all out if it comes down as well, well mostly I'd see us as having deserved it if it comes to that, but there's no end in near sight for humans for the time being so you may as well wish all your peers, friends, and enemies the best they can achieve for themselves for the time being.
We have always been this way, the afterlife isn't really an escape but the continuation, the escape doesn't exist aside from material belongings and from one's own identity in this life.
Sorry for my fortune cookie mantra, I felt talkative, have a meme.

>>4473
Look, I can counter your anecdotal evidence with mine, but that won't get us anywhere. My question still stands: why do you care about how people choose to live their life?

Nice condescending attitude btw. Hope you'll drop it for the sake of your kids.

>>4487
I was just saying you were factually wrong, live your life however you want, do whatever makes you happy in this life, but there's no point in getting mad at someone for reminding you of the possible consequences of your choices realistically.

If I have ever luck I will never have children.
Even though I am already in this age, where everyone gets married and has children.
My Father is really worried, because I don't have a desire for family or even a bf.


I really don't like them. I can't handle 'people' who I can't have a discussion with. By any means, with children you can't.
They are gross and if you are unlucky you have them for 30 or more years.
What if you try your hardest and your child will become a mass murderer or just an plain asshole.
I am really scared about that.
What if you get the child and you see it and there is no feeling of bliss and joy. (that is not uncommon))
What if your child is plain ugly?
Or what if it has an accident and becomes severely disabled, or it just dies?
I could not handle that.
What if your partner decides that you are no longer attractive and he let you alone with the children?
There are too many unknown factors that could ruin everything.
I am not for risk, so no children for me, if i am lucky.

>>120
>It seems like in your opinion a child has to be there, to fill up some void.

I got on board the baby train early when I realized that the void is inevitable. The smartest, most driven, most interesting, most adventurous women (and men) I know all find themselves facing the void at some point. The void is life. Once you accept that reality, your perspective changes.

>>122
>I win. No kids.

If you think he won't eventually break up with you, you're delusional.

>>4474
>People will just keep abusing, raping, and killing each other as long as we exist.

But ano, all of those things are statistically going down globally…

Girl I'm glad I got my copper iud last week and I don't have to worry about tracking my fertility, taking the morning after shit pill that annoys me or being paranoid about it for the next decade
At least I didn't have complications with it

>>102
>Yeah no.
Yeah this won't totally backfire
Making kneejerk impulsive decisions that have a permanent effect on your life should not be taken so lightly
Stop being stupid

>>4600
>kneejerk impulsive decisions
You seem to be assuming a lot about how other people make choices.

>>4600
Exactly why one should consider if they truly want children before having them! If someone who truly does not want kids has them due to societal pressure it will make both she and the kids miserable.
Good job, you're right.

>>4600
So not having children is an impulsive decision? Are you okay, Anon?

I always wanted to be a mother when I was younger, but as I got older I realized it was unrealistic.
Marriage and love is basically out of the question for me. Even if I were to marry, children are really fucking expensive, and I would never want to have a child that I couldn't give everything to.
I also get annoyed at this assumption that all women are good with kids. I like them well enough, but assuming an entire sex is wired to be caretakers of annoying small humans is just an argument used to justify sexism.

I am about to be 30 and I still dont want kids ever since I was 17. I told my parents I never wanted children and yes I still think the same way, I dont want them. They are too expensive, too much responsibility and all around just a bad time, they are smelly you have to change their fricking diapers ever 2 to 3 hours (my sister has two kids and I always helped her take care of them and it was hell) and boy if they get sick a trip to the hospital wont come cheap. My sister use to be a person who would buy a bunch of nice things for herself like brand glasses and brand clothing now she cant afford that now that she has two kids to take care of and I am like no thanks I really dont want that lifestyle. my sister is like "oh you will change your mind" kek noo I dont think so sis….

I want kids but not biological ones. I can't deal with the idea of willingly flinging all of my easily avoidable genetic sick onto a human, and as much as I love kids, won't adopt unless I'm financially, psychologically, and physically sound, as well as my partner being the same.

And not that it's an unpopular opinion in this thread, but still adding a voice to the pile that it's trashy popcorn fuel when pushy middle-aged women and incels alike get blue in the face shouting that feeemales NEED to have kids.

>>6462
AMEN why would i willingly give up my disposable income and free time? no thanks i have NO maternal instincts, i'm not even into taking care of pets. i'm fine without.

How do you convince a guy you're seeing to not want children? I have a strong mistrust for men (he's great but you never know) and I honestly would never put myself in such a vulnerable position by having children when I don't care much either way to have them.

>>6511
Just be blunt and tell him if you haven't already. If he persists, don't bother trying to change his mind. Rethink the relationship.

>thought I don't want kids
>see images of 2d husbando with a cute baby doing father things and being happy
>get feels
What is this? Does this mean if I find a guy I like I'll start wanting kids?

>>6847
I'm turning 28 soon…the time to have kids is closing rapidly. I would only want sons though.

>>6848
Don't wait. Meet somebody! It's late to start getting social, for sure, but that doesn't give you an excuse to give up. I'm sure there's some desperate churchie you could wrap up, if you're looking for an easy route, but networking is still the obvious choice.

>>6848
>I would only want sons though.
please never have kids

>>6849
I don't have interest in girl stuff. Even as a kid I was a tomboy and liked sports and playing in the woods. Now I'm outwardly extremely feminine but still largely have male-typical interests. Girls are boring, you can't do anything with them. My dad tried to prevent me playing sports as a kid because I'm a girl and girls can't live or whatever. Girls are nothing but bad feels, and probably some internalized misogyny or whatever. I dislike women. Little boys are qt and make me want to cook them warm meals and brush their hair. Little girls just inspire hate and disigust. shrug So if I decide to get pregnant and it's a girl, then what? abort it? I'd be screwed.

Anyway still undecided, these feels are new and strange. but idk, the thought of dealing with baby shit is still a good birth control method. It's a whole hell of a lot of bother for something I would only maybe enjoy.

>>6853
Ouch.
>>6854
You're probably going to have nothing but girls. Just raise them to be tomboys.

>>6857
I'll just leave them in a ditch or something.

>>6862
Not funny. The world needs more gender-nonconforming girls anyway.

>>4462
>Also do you really think that calcium in our bodies never gets replaced?
It doesn't we reach peak bone mass around 20-30 years of age and it's downhill from there on. We do recover bone but it's just slower than the rate it is getting destroyed.

>>6846

I never wanted kids until I met my husband, and even then I was in a state of self-denial for a LONG time. Apparently years of telling everyone you don’t want something makes it difficult to be honest with yourself about suddenly wanting that thing.

>>6923
How has your experience been so far?
What do you appreciate or find rewarding in being a mother that was lost on the younger you?

>>6924
>>How has your experience been so far?

It's easier than I thought it would be. Mine aren't particularly easy (though thankfully not particularly hard) kids from what I understand. There are some moms who act like it's all rainbows and butterflies and there is no such thing as a bad moment. Other moms seem to feel like their kids are a burden, but I think those are women who are just complainers in general. My experience has been in the middle; not exclusively good times but an overwhelmingly strong net positive.

>>What do you appreciate or find rewarding in being a mother that was lost on the younger you?

It's weird; my self concept hasn't quite yet changed to "being a mother." Like in my head I'm still the same woman I was at 20, adamantly against having kids. But I have two and my husband and I want at least one more. I think knowing that he wanted kids but wanted to be with me more than having kids, and telling me that he'd be with me no matter what, it showed me that having kids wasn't going to be a price I had to pay to society. It wasn't going to be something I "had to do." Once it felt like less of an obligation and I was confident and secure in myself as not "needing" to have kids to please anyone else, I slowly began to realize that I never didn't want kids, I wanted to not be told what I do or don't or will or won't want.

Not wanting kids was a form of rebellion, and once I was my own person, the need to rebel dissipated, and I was able to see the pros and cons in a very different light.

We're encouraged as women to ask ourselves why we do want certain things, but we're actually discouraged in my experience from thinking critically and deeply about why we don't want things.

I don't hate kids at all, but I never felt the drive to have them. I know I'm the weird one, since it can be said the whole purpose of life, romantic love, attraction, etc is to have children. Still, I don't see the appeal and it seems so alien to me.

>>6937
Thanks, this post was very interesting to read.

I don't understand women who have children before they're 30.

Early 20s and everything about pregnancy and procreation is incredibly repulsive to me.I dislike children and find them annoying af, they're only tolerable when they're somewhat older and even then i just don't get the appeal AT ALL.

>>8691
Why?
>>8694
>Early 20s and everything about pregnancy and procreation is incredibly repulsive to me.
Why?

People shouldn't have children if they don't want them. I don't understand why that's a hard concept to understand. There's plenty of acceptable reasons to not have children.
I don't get having to pressure or "convenience" other people to have children. It's not what they want and surely leave to unhappiness both to the individuals and the child.

>>8695
The fuck do you mean "why", retard? I find kids and pregnancy disgusting the same way I find bugs disgusting.it's just not for me :)

>>8696
Yeah but many parents see children as the greatest things in their lives so you must be broken to not experience such joy, it's what your body was made for, you will wish you had them etc. It's why it's such a difficult thing to get sterilized.

I think it just doesn't compute for them that some people find joy in other things.

>>8699
Do you ask people why they're gay too

>>8701
You haven't talked to many people who don't want kids then. I've heard that they're disgusting and gross many times. Many people think babies look like ugly snotty aliens and find older children annoying and often disgusting too if they have bad hygiene.

There are plenty of reasons to hate them. Just refrain from asking people about this stuff please, you sound like those idiots who try to "cure" asexuals because it's unnatural too.

does anyone else feel like that the movement of wanting less/no children is an effect of overpopulation? i don’t know how founded this idea is, but i imagine there’s an anon out there who can either expound or qualify this claim.

>>8699
I rather touch a cockroach then a human infant any day.
Some people just don't find children appealing.

>>8708
>So if you don't babies, then you're broken.
Got it.
I still don't like babies.

>>8707
Thank you and same <3 in all honestly i'd rather cut off a limb or kms than give birth.
@ everyone: obvious retarded moid is obvious, refrain from answering in the future

>>8699
Will you shut the FUCK up about evolution already? You have one (1) argument and it's shit.Wouldn't be surprised if you start talking about astrology birth charts next

I was anti-natalist in my teens and early 20's (I'm 25 now) Like SUPER anti, thinking that human beings were a cancer on the earth and they needed to be extinguished. I guess that's what happens when you have a background of childhood abuse and a negative outlook on life, tho.

It all changed when my BFF got pregnant on accident. At first I advised that she abort it (and I feel so bad about that to this day, truthfully) but she decided to keep him.

After not being supportive, I came around when she officially announced she was going to have a baby. And I was there, at the birth. It was WILD. Absolutely insane to see a child coming into this world and I knew that I needed this in my life the first time I held that lil boi. Now I'm actually trying get pregnant with my husband, lol.

I know some women aren't cut out for motherhood. Some probably shouldn't be honestly. It's taxing on your body, but it can give you a strange kind of freedom, as I witnessed with my best friend.

My take is that being anti-natalist is probably a sign of indoctrination into a world that literally preys on children, and a society that values being young and partying forever (I'm talking about the US, not sure if it's like that other places) OR it's a symptom of infertility/ being disgenic/ imbalanced hormones ECT. I think hormonal birth control can also impact a woman's desire for children because it literally ruins your endocrine system, and that's what your "clock" relies on.

Not trying to preach, but you'll know what's right for you. You very well may change your mind, or not.

>>8714
refreshing perspective. tbh, a lot of anti-natalists i’ve spoken to come across as having some strangely juvenile opinions a lot of the time, even if they have a handful of valid points.

Anyone else believes in the behavioral sink theory?

>>8715
For sure. A lot of the time it comes down to either a bodily concerns, financial strain, or to A societal level… and I can understand them even if I don't agree anymore.

Those who were abused as children often don't want to have children of their own, I've noticed. It's all too common.

Wild how you say you're disgusted by and/or indifferent to pregnancy/childbirth and people automatically assume you're ~anti-natalist~.Flashnews, it's not an ethical stance and frankly I could not give less of a shit about "overpopulation".I'm quite literally talking about MY body and what I don't want to do with it.It ain't deep.Not only that but in my experience women who don't want children overwhemingly fall into that category as well, it's very very rarely a decision borne of noble intentions.Yall need to go outside and actually talk to women.

>>8716
Your acting skillz are even more pathetic than your arguments, luv <3 there's one (1) moid blurting out unscientific evolutionary psych bullshit on every thread and it's you.

>>8721
U ok, anon?

>>8714
I'm anti-natalist for ethical and enviromental reasons, where do you get this idea that we value partying forever?

>>8724
Because it's fucking obvious you idiot. But some don't, do you annoy people who like snakes because that's ~unnatural due to evolution~ too?

>>8697
Anon that asked ''why'' here. The fact that you find something completely natural like pregnancy and children (remember you were a kid once) and react so stupid when asked about it makes me thing your opinion is completely biased. You act like a child yourself, I wonder how does that make you feel.

>>8727
*find repulsive

>>8727
You call her childish while using the shitty argument that she was a child once. That changes nothing, if anything it might make her more sure of it because she realizes how much work she was.

Look, it may be a natural bodily function, but some women do not want to destroy their body, finances and career to have a screaming melon tear out their vaginas and have to take care of said screaming melon for years until they learn not to shit their pants. Raising a kid is full time work if you want to do it right and some women simply don't think it's worth it to go through all this just to add another person to the world because muh genes.

It's really not that hard to understand, but i suspect you're a moid so it might be a bit more difficult.

>>8729
>You call her
>her
Anon, it's you.

The fact that someone loathes an entire age group it's very different than just simply not wanting to have kids. The first seems like some mental problem whereas the second doesn't. She said that she finds them repulsive like some people find repulsive bugs, and that's NOT NORMAL. And I'm pointing out the fact that if she feels like that towards all kids and she was once one of them that probably means that she has some issues that may be interfiering with her maternal choices (wether their agains kids or not). Issues that women who simply don't want kids don't have.

>Screaming melon

Really? How am I supposed to reply to your post seriously if you use such dumb arguments? I can understand that some women would rather dedicate their lives to their careers, but don't forget that not all of them chose this path willingly leaving behind a family. Some of them pursue these kind of dreams feeling some sort of regret. I can respect both positions without insulting them: loving to have kids some day or not wanting them.

It's really not that hard to understand both points of view but by your lenguage you've made pretty clear that you don't have enough maturity to respect all women that have already chosen what they want, not even enough to concieve a the opposite point of view is as much valid as the one you hold right now, which could change over time.

I've you base any decision on loathing or how your looks will mantain over the years you're going to miss a lot in life.

>>8731
No, i'm a different anon, just tired of this bullshit.

If you want to have kids that's great. I fucking hate and am disgusted by bugs but if you want to raise some beetles as pets you can do whatever you want, the fact that i personally don't like them has no weight on your own life. But you telling other people they MUST like them too is different.

Children can/will be gross, annoying, needy, selfish. If you like you can have them, no ones stopping you, but it's perfectly understandable that some don't. A babys main appeal is cuteness, if you don't find it cute all that's left is an ugly screaming tiny person that shits itself and will die if you don't care for it. Can you really not see why the hell some are disgusted by the thought of them?

>How am I supposed to reply to your post seriously if you use such dumb arguments?
I used a term i saw a mom use while talking about her own damn baby. And it's an image board, calm down intellectual.

>path willingly leaving behind a family. Some of them pursue these kind of dreams feeling some sort of regret.
You ever heard about maternity leave and work-life balance? You rarely have to be childless to work these days. Also, some women have kids and regret it too! Would you look at that, maternity is not everyone and life-changing choice, not just some instinct you should follow!

And the kicker is i personally like kids. Even if i don't want my own, i find them endearing and like playing with them, and i can see 100% how people can not like them or be disgusted, they can be gross little fuckers. It really isn't hard to have a bit of empathy and realize that people who don't like the same things as you are not broken.

>>8732
>I fucking hate and am disgusted by bugs but if you want to raise some beetles as pets you can do whatever you want, the fact that i personally don't like them has no weight on your own life.

Do you have any reading comprehension skills? The other anon said: >>8697 [pic related] Otherwise, what the hell are you talking about? I don't want bugs neither bringed them to the conversation myself the first, I was talking about hthe post I replied to.

>But you telling other people they MUST like them too is different.
I never did that. Only asked why she didn't like kids and pointed out that if she feels so strongly about that maybe there's some issue. >>8695
Again, you didn't read my posts carefully.

>A babys main appeal is cuteness
It's not? It's the love you feel towards them. There are ugly babies and mothers love them as much. It's a human being, not an accesory, why do you care so much about if it's cute or not all the time?

>calm down intellectual.
Learn how to read, please.

Some careers are too exigent to have family or even a stable partner, due to constant travelling or how risky the job is. Or maybe you can't have a family because working didn't give you much time to find someone and you're over 45 and didn't want to marry someone you didn't love. This things happen.

>It really isn't hard to have a bit of empathy and realize that people who don't like the same things as you are not broken.

My post : >>8731
> And I'm pointing out the fact that if she feels like that towards all kids and she was once one of them that probably means that she has some issues that may be interfiering with her maternal choices (wether their agains kids or not). Issues that women who simply don't want kids don't have.
> I can respect both positions without insulting them: loving to have kids some day or not wanting them.
>I've you base any decision on loathing or how your looks will mantain over the years you're going to miss a lot in life.

^^Read the sentence from above again

It wasn't really that hard to read and undertstand that loathing kids isn't the same as not wanting them. Just like there's a difference between a homosexual male that doesn't want to date a woman and someone who loathes women and finds them repulsive like bugs, which would be like I said a big issue. Do you see the parallelism between the anon and this example? One is preference and the other one is hate or (as I believe in the anon's case) childish exaggeration. I even screencaped what post I'm referring to so you don't get lost. That attitude towards kids, human beings, it's not normal unless it's exaggerated. And I didn't even mention that she includes pregnancy amogst her phobias (maybe that's a too big word). I know I know, what do I care? She will do what she wants, of course, but she has issues she can't deny if she's being serious. Stop defending someone that inmature.

>>8733
Some people just don't have it. I find them kind of cute, rats too.

>>8716
I think she get irrationally mad because of the evolutionionary psychology

>>8734
>I was talking about the post I replied to.
>I don't want bugs
Me too. I'm not implying you're pushing people to like bugs, i gave that example so you can see how annoying it is when people fight you over saying you don't like something / find it disgusting. It literally changes no ones life that she finds them disgusting just as it doesn't that that she finds kids disgusting. She won't suddenly start raising bugs or have children because someone argued about it.

>I never did that.
Yeah you just implied it by saying that something's wrong with her if she doesn't like children to a certain degree and that it is "NOT NORMAL".

>It's not?
It is. Why do you think we find things like big eyes and heads cute? You talk so much about evo psych, you should know that we have this cuteness response to help protect and love them. Yeah a mom can like an ugly baby but most people do think babies and small children are cuties.

>Some careers are too exigent to have family
I can think of few careers that demand this nowadays, and yeah they exist but it's something you know upfront and you can aways work in the same field in another position that allows you to settle down. I don't doubt that some regret not having kids but from my experience these are the ones that stayed in the fence instead of the ones that knew early on they didn't like kids or wouldn't like being a mom.

>a homosexual male that doesn't want to date a woman and someone who loathes women and finds them repulsive like bugs
Many gay men are repulsed by a womans body yes. I've heard some describing vulvas as smelly ham. Nothing wrong with them, they don't need to reflect on and overcome it if they're not harming anyone as i'm sure that girl is not harming children or telling them that they're disgusting in their faces.

Look put yourself in her place and think about if you tell someone you are trying to get pregnant and the person starts questioning you and asking why you want it. Imagine if the person says that wanting a baby is not normal because we are overpopulated and they believe behavioural sinking theory effects are the new normal. You could rightfully feel offended because that person has no business questioning why you made a personal life decision and implying you're somehow broken. That's how you came across with your responses to that anon.

I have no horse in this race because i actually like kids even if i don't want my own, i just wish you could reflect on it and stop implying people aren't normal specially when society already tells them that not having children is abnormal.

>>8739
>It literally changes no ones life that she finds them disgusting just as it doesn't that that she finds kids disgusting.
I find black people disgusting. Does it change somebody's life? Would that affect my interactions with other people? Think about it. It's not like ''I don't like this kind of music''. It's something most people would thing you have a deeper problem, don't you think?

>Yeah you just implied it by saying that something's wrong with her if she doesn't like children to a certain degree and that it is "NOT NORMAL".
Nope, I wasn't implying that she HAS to like children. I said a couple of times that there's nothing wrong with not wanting children. So if she comes to that conclusion in a healthy way it's okay. BUT not as a decision based on loathing. I said:>>8731

>I've you base any decision on loathing or how your looks will mantain over the years you're going to miss a lot in life.

>Why do you think we find things like big eyes and heads cute?
Do you fins Gollum cute? Really? No, I'd love my kid because they're my kid, not because it looks like a doll.

>evo psych
I'm not basing my points solely on bilogical factors, because as I said I understand women naturally not wanting children. And for the tenth time I'll repeat that that it's not the same as FEELING REPULSED BY CHILDREN.

>you can aways work in the same field in another position that allows you to settle down
I'm talking about international journalism, the army, ambassadors, artists that travel with theatre companies, musicians, etc…

>I don't doubt that some regret not having kids but from my experience these are the ones that stayed in the fence instead of the ones that knew early on they didn't like kids or wouldn't like being a mom.
I've met both types. But these days people have kids older than 40, which is risky.

> Nothing wrong with them, they don't need to reflect on and overcome it if they're not harming anyone as i'm sure that girl is not harming children or telling them that they're disgusting in their faces.
Maybe they don't harm women directly bit it's obvious it's something that compromises other women to some degree. I don't feel comfortable knowing this and then approaching random gay dudes in women's bathrooms. Also think about gay parents with daughters. It's just not right. If you feel repulsed by something that it's largely present in your society it's going to have consequences. If she feels repulsed by kids to that level I can't imagine how is she going to deal with them if some relative has them or if her neighbours have th was disgusted by rats I couldn't live normally if my siblings had pet rats and they came to family reunions, or if I saw rats in the bus or in the street. That's why I believe she's childishly exaggerating or exposing issues of some sort.

>Look put yourself in her place and think about if you tell someone you are trying to get pregnant and the person starts questioning you and asking why you want it.
I just asked why and she called me a retard. See: >>8697
I don't understand why you are defendig her. I was just curious. I should be the one offended. I thought this was a forum for discussr oppinions. Do you understand know how she responded?
>That's how you came across with your responses to that anon.
^^Therefore this is incorrect.

> i just wish you could reflect on it and stop implying people aren't normal specially when society already tells them that not having children is abnormal.

Do I have to copy and paste all the times I've clearly stated that I didn't find abnormal that some women don't want kids? Do I have to tell you again that you need to learn how to read? Okay, here it goes: learn how to read. Reflect on that.

>>8740
>you might not see it this way but there is something 'wrong' with you if you dont like kids.
>aversion to children seems like something that could be more easily cured

Weren't these you? so yes, you do find it abnormal. We can clearly see through it anon, no need to deny it.

>I just asked why and she called me a retard.
With reason. If i said i love kids and someone asked me why i feel this way i would call them a retard too. People like and are disgusted by different things, learn to live with it.

>Does it change somebody's life? Would that affect my interactions with other people? Think about it.
It literally does not. I could care less if someone is disgusted by me or doesn't want to be around people like me as long as they respect me and don't outwardly say it, and believe me unfortunately A LOT of people are disgusted by black people but don't show it. I'm disgusted by dick and i don't treat men like shit or make them feel insecure over it. Stop policing peoples thoughts.

>So if she comes to that conclusion in a healthy way it's okay.
And who the hell are you to tell her if it's healthy or not? unless you're her therapist you should mind your damn business.

>I don't understand why you are defendig her. I was just curious. I should be the one offended. I thought this was a forum for discussr oppinions. Do you understand know how she responded?
I am defending her because you were out of line in asking personal queations then implying she wasn't normal and because i have seen this same shit reasoning with conversion therapy.
She called you a retard, rude but not unexpected for a image board, and you will be called worse things if you don't stop questioning peoples feelings and thoughts on personal matters and invalidating them over evo psych.

Whatever, keep doing your thing. I tried explaining but you clearly think you're justified, so i'm out, let anon deal with it if she wants.

>>8741

>you might not see it this way but there is something 'wrong' with you if you dont like kids.
>aversion to children seems like something that could be more easily cured

No, that wasn't me.

>With reason. If i said i love kids and someone asked me why i feel this way i would call them a retard too. People like and are disgusted by different things, learn to live with it.

Am I not supposted to show interest to what someone writes willingly in a forum? Aren't we here to chat and interect anonimously? C'mmon.

>And who the hell are you to tell her if it's healthy or not?
Because it's pretty obvious. Why wouln't I say what I think? Again, this is a forum, I can express my thoughts. And she was rude from the very start for no apparent reason.

>out of line in asking personal queations
I literally only asked ''why'' LOL is that a personal question? In a ANONIMOUS forum? If she answered that she'd rather not tell I would've respected that but she made the dumbest answer. How can you be so triggered by a ''why''?

> then implying she wasn't normal
As I said above, I didn't call abnormal anyone. That post wasn't mine.

>and you will be called worse things if you don't stop questioning peoples feelings and thoughts on personal matters and invalidating them over evo psych.
Literally one word and then this >>8727
The rest was interaction with you. This song will be my fucking anthem. https://youtu.be/HG7I4oniOyA

And you keep thinking I'm pushing the ''evo psych'', which I'm not. DO I HAVE TO REPEAT AGAIN I'M COMPLETELY OKAY WITH WOMEN NOT WANTING KIDS? OH MY GOD ANON, DO I ?

That's what happens when you show interest on someon's answer. Muh feefees. You even called me a moid if I'm not mistaken.

We need ip's in here.

Whyyyyyyy

>>8742
LOL original anon here glad you're butthurt over being called a retard because…you are :) i still find the process of childrearing from start to finish disgusting and moids who have made a nest out of their mother's basement can die mad about it <3

>>8743
Whyyyyy

>>8742
Lmfao i thought you were the same anon that was talking this bullshit… if the posts i cited weren't you, disregard it.

And well, you can ask why and she can call you a retard and refuse to answer. That's the beauty of an anonymous board.

It's kind of rude that because a woman who doesn't want children gets called "broken." That there has to be a scientific reasoning behind it. Instead of that maybe the woman had made a informed decision herself to not have children. There's plenty of reasons to not have children and it sometimes is just simply a personal choice. Some people change their mind later in life and some people don't. Life's full of what if's, should've, would've and could'ves.

Just because someone chose not to have children doesn't mean there's something inheritly wrong with them. I don't get this conclusion that they must have a chemical imbalance, or they're immature or have some trauma.

''I've thought about it for quite some time and I definitely don't want to have kids even though I respect other people around me having them and I want them to respect my choice as well. ''

=/=

''Children are fucking gross and retarded. I'm not wasting my money, my youth and destroying my body to give birth to a swamp creature that I must feed and take care of until they're 18 years old. People that want a family are brainwashed and end up losing all their personality.''

TL;DR

Moids mad they dysgenic lel

From personal experience, all women who chose not to have children and grow past the age of 40 become mad crazy. If you are a woman from Europe/North America you have an obligation to be a mother.

>>8709
this. like lmao i'm "broken" okay, because i live my life how i please? so there's something "wrong" with me?
>>8708
kids are fuckign annoying. it isn't a coincidence that the world over, just as soon as women had the ability to choose for themselves whether they wanted kids or not, the birth rate plummeted. no one wants that shit. kids are annoying, disgusting, destroy everything, expensive, a huge burden, birth is painful and child rearing destroys your body, it is physical and emotional labor for 18+ years, and it's almost 100% on the woman to do. not all of us want to spend our days wiping up vomit and shit.

if the only way you can convince women to have kids is by going islam and raping them and enslaving them to be broodmares for you, maaaaybe that should tell you something. enjoy your slavery. but remember, I'm the "broken" one lol. me and a billion other women.

>>8731
>how your looks will mantain over the years
confirmed moid. no one mentioned that. not wanting to have a screaming melon shoved through my vagina has nothing to do with vanity. how about you squirt a newborn infant out of your dickhole? oh yeah when it's your body it isn't as appealing, huh?

kids are fucking stupid. i dont care about careers or my looks or whatever shit. i don't want to deal with a screaming little retard beign dependent on my and clamboring to pull my hair and bite my tits and make me watch it poop itself. and middle aged kids are annoying whiny materialists, older kids go through annoying phases that make me want to punch them in the face, teenagers are all into drugs and screwing like animals. i don't even like other people to begin with. why would i want to tie myself to some stranger who falls out of my vagina? they're a person, a human being. i don't like human beings. kids are like pets, but 100x worse. and you don't see me having a cat around shitting in a box in my apartment and getting fur and vomit all over my possessions.
>not normal
get it through your head that we don't give a fuck what normal is.
>>8733
>innate aversion to snakes
i've adored snakes since i was a child. stop applying shoddy psych 101 to actual human beigns you half-educated little twat.
>>8751
reasonable post is reasonable.
>>8754
people can do what they want. i think mustard is disgusting. other people can eat it if they want. but don't come here and call me "broken" because i don't want to eat it.
>>8768
just because you have a crazy aunt doesn't mean you get to run up to random strangers on the internet and talk shit on how they're nuts or broken because they don't like what you like. get over yourself.

Imagine giving birth to an ungrateful misogynist who won't leave your house even when he's 30.

>>8695
Most young mothers are irresponsible and don't really care about the child.

Nobody here is obliging anyone to do anything. The mad irrational posts that come from both points of view are equally retarded. There are respectful posts outhere and some of you react like fucking babies. Calm your fucking tits and expand you're fucking vocabulary.

>>8768
Funny, from my own personal experience it's the exact opposite.
No one has a obligation to have children.

>>8777
yikes. who hurt you?

>>8778
I'm sorry? There seems to be misunderstanding.

I was just stating. From personal experience they women I know who are childless in their 40s seem way more sane then most mothers I meet.
No one has to have a child, especially if it's not what they want.
Not everyone will share the same views.

>>8778
Why do people have to birth children? Why can't they adopt a child when they feel ready for a child?
There's plenty of reasons why someone doesn't want to adopt as there are to why someone wants to adopt. It's the same logic. If someone wants a child they will find a way. It's easy to have a child. It's another thing to love and support it.

>>8776
>expand you're fucking vocabulary
>you're
>you are
m9 are you shitting me? you're the biggest hypocrite in the damned room for certain, get the fuck outta here

>>8773
>i've adored snakes since i was a child. stop applying shoddy psych 101 to actual human beigns

okay but we still have an innate aversion to snakes. this has been proven.

>>8776
I grew up in an understanding, decent, normal family with no expectations that I'd have children but damn some of my friends get nagged constantly about this bs. One got disowned, several were physically abused, another sold overseas in a marriage to her cousin. I really feel for them and telling them to calm down about it is too cold and not a doable reality.

>>8793
What country are you from?

>>8793
sold?? tf is she okay? do you guys keep contact?

>>8793
I don't doubt you, because I hear situations like that all the time. It's truly sad to hear the women and girls still have to deal with that. They don't share the same backgrounds or ethnicities but I imagine some are worst about it then others. But it's mostly not just about having children, it's also about getting married, family relationships, social status. It's just a whole mess. They're not in a environment where they can choose to have children or not. I don't doubt some of them want children,just under a better circumstance and of their own choice.
Once again it's still awful and I send my condolences.

>>8790
>trying to razz others about their "limited vocabularly" when you make a mistake a second grader would know better than to
glass houses. now shut your stupid-hole.
>>8791
nice broscience

>>8841
So you've never made that mistake, right?
>now shut your stupid-hole.
Wow, I bet people don't take you seriously at all.

>Do I want children?
This has been a question I've been asking myself over the years. And I've come to the conclusion that I don't want them myself. I thought about it multiple times and even discussed it with my boyfriend over the years and it's been mostly no. There was a period where I thought I wanted a happy family but then I thought about it. I love the idea of adopting a kid way more then having one. But in that case I doubt I could afford to care for another human being, let alone have the commitment. So I've came to my own conclusion that it's simply not for me.

>>8853
yooo I feel this. I like kids and like the idea of being a parent, but there are too many cons and logistics in my life to realistically consider bio kids. Adoption maybe, with the right partner. I'm keeping myself satisfied with being good to my baby cousins (no siblings, so no nieces and nephews)

>>8897
It's unpaid if you think you can only be paid with money and material stuff. I'm not a mother but I recall my childhood memories as the best time of my life and my mother did also enjoy raising my siblings and I. It's a period in you life that CAN be full of beautiful experiences and real happiness and joy. You can't approach it like a job, like you can't approach any relationship like that if you want it to be genuine. That's just my opinon.

>>8898
> logical opinion that you hate your baby
I understan this. Sometimes when I picture myself being a mother I wonder if I'll like my child. If it's a healthy baby I won't have any complain. But if they get older and despite my efforts to educate them they misbehave constantly I'd be worried about their mental health and emotional state rather than just hate them. I can't hate a baby because they're crying or they're doing any normal baby stuff, but I could lose my patience with a 8yo kid that doesn't want to share toys or have a shower. Is this what you meant with hate?

I don't want to sound rude or anything. I'm glad I found threads like this where I can talk about maternity with young women. I want to have kids and maybe I'll jump to it with few considerations. Anons that don't like/want kids make some interesting posts although I have to say some people ITT seem like exaggerating sometimes.

>>8926
>I mean if you just hate looking after a baby or child.
But if you knew you hated looking at a baby or a child you wouln't bget pregnant in the first place, or would have an abortion, wouldn't you? If you live in a country where it's ''that simple'', of course.

> If you tried being a nanny and then decided the job wasn't for you, no one would send you to therapy.
I was a nanny for two children 5 days a week for 6 months, spent 5h a day with them. I disliked them a lot mainly because they were spoiled and there was little I could do about that. I'd imagin there are fewer chances you end up hating your own kids because you influence them the most of all people. Of course they can drive you mad sometimes but I can't imagine why would you hate them 24/7. I believe it's quite the opposite case, no matter what they do you'll love them anyway because they're yours. Despite the fact that at some point in life you're angry with them or disappointed. I can't see why would anyone hate to look after a kid, I mean real hate. You could be exhausted and tired of not having as much time for yourself as you had before, but I've been told by plenty of people that when you stay far from your small child you'll miss them and worry about them like crazy, so you would finally go by their side again even if there's a relative taking care of the baby. You'd probably want to supervise anyone who's holding it or feeding it or whatever.

> People don't always have babies because they've thought it through 100%, sometimes women don't realise they are pregnant or are pressured into keeping it.
That's completely true and some mothers and children end up being miserable for this, I know.

>>8928
>I believe it's quite the opposite case, no matter what they do you'll love them anyway because they're yours.
Are you really this naive that you think people can't hate their children? Children get killed by their own parents anon. Children get neglected, abused, raped, you name it, all by their parents. You can absolutely feel nothing or even hatred for your own kids, if anything even more because you are the one with the responsibility and with them 24/7 listening to screaming and such.
I think you're projecting how you like them, and how you have strong maternal instincts on everyone. I agree with the other anon that it's logical sometimes to not feel love to your baby, and that you don't deserve to be treated as insane for it.
>But if you knew you hated looking at a baby or a child you wouln't bget pregnant in the first place
Yeah, but religious or moral reasons can stop people from getting abortions even if by accident or rape, or they may realize it only after the baby is born. Sometimes people think it's different when it's their own, or think that's what they are supposed to do. They may like other kids but not be able to bond with the kid over the crushing weight of having to provide and care for them nonstop.

>had to listen to some toddler scream, "mom!!!! mom!!!! mooooom, moooooommmmm, moooooooooommmmmmmm!!!!!!" for 20 minutes straight yesterday
nice dose of birth control. why the fuck do they do that shit?

When I don't have to work to acquire money I want to relax and enjoy that money I earned. I want to play videogames on my phone, read a book, watch netflix, lie down and fall asleep, eat a snack, take a shower, do whatever I feel like doing in the moment.

Can't do that with a child demanding things all the time. If I leave a child alone by himself to take a long hot shower and relax reading a magazine while I let my hair dry, I will be held responsible if the stupid idiot hurts himself while alone. I don't want that responsibility, I want my freedom to relax and think only about myself.

>>8930
>Children get killed by their own parents anon. Children get neglected, abused, raped, you name it, all by their parents. You can absolutely feel nothing or even hatred for your own kids, if anything even more because you are the one with the responsibility and with them 24/7 listening to screaming and such.
Of course this things happen, but people that abuse and rape other people (being them their children or not) are mentally ill. I'm not saying that a kid could never recieve any harm by his parents but it's obvious that if someone kills or hits constantly kids is because they aren't allright. Just like anyone that rapes or smashes his/her partner. Of corse there's people like this but it's abnormal. On thing is to dislike children in general and chose note to be a mother, I respect that. But one very different thing is to be a psycopath that mistreats people. If a person that doesn't want to have a kid ends up having it for whatever reason I doubt she hates her kid. Maybe she hates being a mum or the man that got her pregnant, but blaming the kid sounds like a very immature and illogical response. If it were the case than any parent truly hates his/her kid specifically since their birth and abuses them I would want that kid to go with the social services, and the parents to recieve proper help. I doubt any parent that raped or killed her/his kid didn't have any mental issues before, just like any other murderer wasn't a ''normal'' person until his/her first victim.

>I think you're projecting how you like them, and how you have strong maternal instincts on everyone.
I literally said that I disliked the two kids I babysitted. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about my last post that you felt the need to say something like this but okay. I think I was being respectful with you.


>that you don't deserve to be treated as insane for it.
I would consider anyone that mistreats babies and children (that behave normal) to be troubled.
Postpartum depression it's not madness or insanity, but it need to be properly treated so the mom can overcome her depression. Never met anyone with this condition but sounds tough.

>Yeah, but religious or moral reasons can stop people from getting abortions even if by accident or rape, or they may realize it only after the baby is born. Sometimes people think it's different when it's their own, or think that's what they are supposed to do. They may like other kids but not be able to bond with the kid over the crushing weight of having to provide and care for them nonstop.

I agree with what you say, like I said on my previous post. I'd like to add that I was having in mind a regular situation of a couple having a kid and feeling how much different things are now. I didn't think about child abusers when I thought about that ''hate'' we were discussing because there's so many girls in here that have expressed that feeling against kids and I doubt any of them would harm children. So basically, detailing what comes up to our mind when we picture a feeling of reject towards a kid would have been helpful for this. In my case it's aversion rather than fury or any other feeling that makes you react with a physical response.

>>8932
Nice bait.

>>8934
100% not bait.

>>8932
I agree

Samefagging

how do you deal when mentally you don't want kids but physically/hormonally/sexually your body screams at you to get pregnant? it's the worst fetish to have and seems to get worse the week right before my period.

>>8933
>If a person that doesn't want to have a kid ends up having it for whatever reason I doubt she hates her kid. Maybe she hates being a mum or the man that got her pregnant, but blaming the kid sounds like a very immature and illogical response.
See, you say you doubt she hates her kid because you see the kid as an innocent being, who does not deserve to suffer and had no say in this. You need to keep in mind that some women would see this kid not as a person that they now need to care for, but as an annoyance and as something they were forced or pressured to have that ruined their life and body, some women simply have zero maternal feelings torwards kids. It does not matter that it's illogical or immature in your view, it matters that the one screaming, crying and needing constant attention and care is the kid. Not the father, herself or society, the same way it's not logical but some people can't help but be mad at a printer that gives them grief even if the problem is with the pc or internet.

>I doubt any parent that raped or killed her/his kid didn't have any mental issues before, just like any other murderer wasn't a ''normal'' person until his/her first victim.
I agree on rape, but killing newborn babies is pretty common if the woman is denied an abortion and can't tell anyone she was pregnant. When some people reach a point of duress, be it because this baby will make their life hell or because they cannot handle their small kid anymore and have no way of getting out of being a parent, violence and homicide can sadly happen, even by previously mentally healthy individuals. It's hard to tell what even a normal human will do when cornered and stressed with no way out.

>I literally said that I disliked the two kids I babysitted. I don't see what's so difficult to understand about my last post that you felt the need to say something like this but okay. I think I was being respectful with you.
I'm not insulting you? sorry if i came across that way, i'm not saying that you like all kids, but that you babysitted and still want a baby, i presume, and that you still seem to care about kids well being. You talk about not being able to imagine hating your own kid because they are your own, that you'll love them no matter what and how you were told would be really attached to it. I can imagine someone hating their kid easily, i've lived it and talked to people who suffered with a mom who hated them, true hate or just neglect/resentment. I say you're projecting because you are envisioning all mothers as being as patient, responsible and loving to their kids like you believe they should be, and like i presume you will be, but it's just not true anon.

>Postpartum depression it's not madness or insanity, but it need to be properly treated so the mom can overcome her depression. Never met anyone with this condition but sounds tough.
But that's what the anon was saying. If you consider PPD as simply not caring about your kid or disliking how you are now a mother, why should it need to be treated if the mom doesn't want it? What if she just wants to give her kid up because she finds caring for it unbearable? There is often a logical side to it as you can only truly know what parenthood is like when the baby is there, and if you find it's not for you, that you made a mistake… well, you need to be cured or risk losing your husband and family for abandoning your baby. I think that's what anon was mad about: being treated as mentally ill for not turning into a caring mother suddenly or for regreting such a major life decision.

>I agree with what you say, like I said on my previous post. I'd like to add that I was having in mind a regular situation of a couple having a kid and feeling how much different things are now. I didn't think about child abusers when I thought about that ''hate'' we were discussing because there's so many girls in here that have expressed that feeling against kids and I doubt any of them would harm children. So basically, detailing what comes up to our mind when we picture a feeling of reject towards a kid would have been helpful for this. In my case it's aversion rather than fury or any other feeling that makes you react with a physical response.
I see. I said before in this wall of text, but yeah aversion from a normal couple is entirely possible even if initially the child was desired. It's easy to blame the one that gave you so many sleepless nights, expenses, someone that is needy and selfish and might have put a stop to any plans on your life or in the case of the mother who caused you physical pain and scars. Some people are just not cut to be parents and only realize it after the deed is done, doesn't mean they are mentally ill, but it means that they might have an aversion and be distant from the kid. Keep going and providing basics for their survival because there is no easy way out once it's born, but be distant and simply not care, or resent them. It's sadly not rare at all, i know of friends who were treated like this and have talked about it online with many other people with similar experiences.

>>8933
>Of course this things happen, but people that abuse and rape other people (being them their children or not) are mentally ill.
NTA but I think the point that they were trying to make is that if people are capable of harboring such extreme feelings towards their own kids, then people having more mild/normal negatives feelings (such as apathy or dislike) are possible too. I at least find it believable that there's nothing about the process of pregnancy and birth that makes it impossible to feel those negative feelings towards your child, even in the absence of mental illness. Especially if she didn't even want the kid in the first place.

a mother could not like their child despite going through the process of pregnancy and birth without it

>>8940

ignore that last sentence, forgot to delete that as I was typing

>>8938
I just masturbate to creampie porn and the urges usually go away within a day.

>>8939
>You need to keep in mind that some women would see this kid not as a person that they now need to care for, but as an annoyance and as something they were forced or pressured to have that ruined their life and body,
I despise this, although I understand it could be like this for some women.
>It does not matter that it's illogical or immature in your view, it matters that the one screaming, crying and needing constant attention and care is the kid.
What I don't understand is why some people argue this is reason enough to not have a baby. Like, ''having a baby is completely unconvenient if you think about it because babies do x,y and z''. I'm sorry, I still can't see why would you hate the kid. Would someone in that circumstances feel the same way about her baby when it's asleep or smiling at her? My point is, like I said, you would hate being a mom or hate hearing the baby scream, but not the baby itself. I see we don't share the same opinion, just wanted to specify. If you want to answer the question I made with your personal thoughts. I would find it very helpful.

>killing newborn babies is pretty common if the woman is denied an abortion and can't tell anyone she was pregnant.
Being common or not doesn't exclude it as an atrocity. Beating and killing wives it's pretty common in my country and I'm not separating those abusive husbands from other less steriotypical murderers.

>When some people reach a point of duress, be it because this baby will make their life hell or because they cannot handle their small kid anymore and have no way of getting out of being a parent, violence and homicide can sadly happen, even by previously mentally healthy individuals. It's hard to tell what even a normal human will do when cornered and stressed with no way out.
In that case I would stop considering that person to be mentally healthy. I know what you're talking about. People in extreme situations that act desperately in a precise moment, doing something drastical. We can't know how many of those mothers feel some sort of regret and how many don't. The act itself being performed on a newborn baby (I think abortions are fine, don't get me wrong) is unjustifiable. Abandoning the kid at an orphanage is way more merciful.

>I can imagine someone hating their kid easily, i've lived it and talked to people who suffered with a mom who hated them, true hate or just neglect/resentment. I say you're projecting because you are envisioning all mothers as being as patient, responsible and loving to their kids like you believe they should be, and like i presume you will be, but it's just not true anon.
I see and although this isn't my personal case I have had people in my close family in this situation, a couple very young moms that neglected their kids.What I can't really picture is how there's so many girls ITT that say how they hate the thought of becoming mothers. We can't really tell, just like I want to have kids and believe I would love it and maybe I'm completely wrong about myself.

I babysitted because I was/am studying and the family that asked me for the job took care of me (gave a room with a small bathroom, paid my bills,etc..) I chose that job so I could live in the city I'm studying for free as an exchange of my services. Babysitting it's not a dream job of mine but I agree that maybe it's way more bearable for those who don't mind kids.

> If you consider PPD as simply not caring about your kid or disliking how you are now a mother, why should it need to be treated if the mom doesn't want it?
But that's not what PPD is, it's a major mental disorder caused by a huge hormonal disbalance (straightly related to the birth, ''partum'' in latin) and other personal emotional circumstances. It's not just that you don't like being a mom, is far more complex and as I said, related to your endochrine system. It's almost if not a homonal-caused depression. Of course it needs and has to be treated with therapy and medication, like any other mental issue.

Regreting having a kid is not PPD. PPD, if treated correctly, may last a few weeks or months. Regreting having a kid is a personal opinion that you'll have forever. Please, don't mistake them.

>needy and selfish
I understand that a baby is needy and dependant, but calling babies selfish? I don't know.

>Some people are just not cut to be parents and only realize it after the deed is done, doesn't mean they are mentally ill, but it means that they might have an aversion and be distant from the kid.
Yes, I understand. The couple I worked for didn't like spending time with their kids, they both were a very career-orientated people that would probably chose not to have kids if they could go back in time. That's why I'm not the kind of person that goes around telling other girls to have kids because they have to ( I hope I didn't give that expression through my posts). I'm okay with other girls not wanting kids, I just get frustrated when they talk about all babies like their some sort of plague. It's okay, they don't want kids, but sometimes I think they could be more respectful about it, I don't call anyone an old barren bitter maid. I like old barren bitter maids, I'm actually going to be one myself because I know kids don't fall from the sky. Girls that don't like kids could be more respectful about it, just like I said I may end up childless they could end up with 3 kids and a dog.

>>8942
https://www.xvideos.com/video35270153/cr73
That's goals.

>>8945
NTA but
>I despise this
Irrelevant. The woman who is forced to keep a baby she doesn't want already has her life completely ruined, so your hate doesn't mean shit because she already feels nothing but pain and misery.

>What I don't understand is why some people argue this is reason enough to not have a baby.
Because they don't want to have their life ruined by that baby. The baby ruins their life and therefore is hated like a disease ruins your life so you hate the reason of your suffering.

>Would someone in that circumstances feel the same way about her baby when it's asleep or smiling at her?
Yes, she knows the baby will soon wake up again and the horrible pain will never truly end, not even when the baby has grown up because adult children still bother their parents and still cause painful memories.

>you would hate being a mom or hate hearing the baby scream, but not the baby itself.
I would hate the baby itself. The baby is the reason why I'm suffering. If the baby didn't exist, I wouldn't be suffering, I would be happy doing something I actually want to do, so I hate the baby.

>Being common or not doesn't exclude it as an atrocity. Beating and killing wives it's pretty common in my country and I'm not separating those abusive husbands from other less steriotypical murderers.
The men who beat and kill wives have the power and possibility to leave, a woman with an unwanted baby doesn't. People will try to throw her baby at her. Babies are a trap and a shackle in a way that adults are not.

>We can't know how many of those mothers feel some sort of regret and how many don't.
We do. There's been studies on unwanted children and women denied abortions. Look up Born Unwanted: The Prague Study. Abortion was made legal also thanks to these studies proving an unwanted causes nothing but psychological damage to women.

>What I can't really picture is how there's so many girls ITT that say how they hate the thought of becoming mothers. We can't really tell
Speak for yourself. I like my free time and I hate it when people bother me. I can perfectly tell.

>I just get frustrated when they talk about all babies like their some sort of plague. It's okay, they don't want kids, but sometimes I think they could be more respectful about it
Never leave an opening. Childfree people are bombarded every day with attempts to "convert" them and trick them into having kids. If someone leaves an opening in their opinion people just use it as an excuse to harass you even more. You want respect? Give respect first. Telll people to be respectful to childfree people first and not insist when a woman says she does not want children.

>>8948
>People will try to throw her baby at her
And not only that, they will mistreat her, discriminate against her, throw abuse at her if she refuses to submit.

>>8948
>Irrelevant.
I stated pretty clearly that I was giving my opinion, the whole discussion with the anon I was replying sharing my thoughts and asking for hers. Don't jump in if you don't know from what position I was speaking, in this case personal opinion.

>forced to keep a baby she doesn't want already has her life completely ruined
Nope, you don't know what can ruin somebodies life. A baby can be given into adoption if not keeped, in the later case it won't be a baby forever. You forget babies grow up and you eventually stop taking care of children or they can be taken care of by other people.

>your hate
Learn how to read, I explicitely said I don't hate women that chose not to have kids. I even said a couple of times I respect all those decissions to avoid misinterpretations of my point of view. I are mading all that up.

>Yes, she knows the baby will soon wake up again and the horrible pain will never truly end, not even when the baby has grown up because adult children still bother their parents and still cause painful memories.
How old are you? Seriously.

>The men who beat and kill wives have the power and possibility to leave, a woman with an unwanted baby doesn't. People will try to throw her baby at her. Babies are a trap and a shackle in a way that adults are not.
Are you really trying to justify infanticides?

> proving an unwanted causes nothing but psychological damage to women.
So you prove my point that it emotionally affects mothers, thanks.

>You want respect? Give respect first.
Again you failed at reading comprehension since I said all the time I respect women that don't want kids.

>And not only that, they will mistreat her, discriminate against her, throw abuse at her if she refuses to submit.
If she put the baby to adoption instead of constantly neglecting her kid things would be solved. Simple as.

>>8950
What makes you think people who shame women for abortion also don't pressure women into keeping the baby and not put it up for adoption?

This also varies from state to state but most places give adoptees the right to find out the identity of their birthparents. Imagine after 25 years your life is finally on track, but then an aggressive, hostile stranger barges in claiming he is your son and why did you abandon him, suddenly your life is ruined because wow, how dare she abandon her kid?! That's a nightmare I would never want to deal with. This is why women prefer abortion to adoption, abortion solves the problem forever, adoption merely postpones it.

>you don't know what can ruin somebodies life
Except people tell you they don't want babies because they know babies will ruin their lives. You said: "What I don't understand is why some people argue this is reason enough to not have a baby."
There's your reason. They think and they know it will ruin their lives. Any reason is reason enough not to have a baby.

Also if you really respected women who don't have kids you wouldn't bitch that they are not "respectful" enough and talk about babies the way babies make them feel, completely disgusted.

And you wouldn't ignore all the people they encountered that dismissed their feelings, people who often happen to be medical professionals who expose women to danger by denying women sterilization or even contraception.

>>8953
>What makes you think people who shame women for abortion also don't pressure women into keeping the baby and not put it up for adoption?
As I said in some of my posts ITT, I respect women that chose not to have children and I understant those who are forced to have them are left in a miserable situation because they need to re-arrange their lifes after something as big as having a kid. What I don't understand is that you replied to my post like I am one of those people that shame women, and I'm not like that. I said earlier that I was open-minded and I asked for the other anon I was talking to to give me her thoughts on some stuff. In your late post you literally said:

>so your hate doesn't mean shit because she already feels nothing but pain and misery.

And I repeat, you are not understanding my position if you come up with this.

>This is why women prefer abortion to adoption, abortion solves the problem forever, adoption merely postpones it.
Why are you coming up with this either? I literally said I support abortion here>>8945
>The act itself being performed on a newborn baby (I think abortions are fine, don't get me wrong) is unjustifiable

>Except people tell you they don't want babies because they know babies will ruin their lives. You said: "What I don't understand is why some people argue this is reason enough to not have a baby."
There's your reason. They think and they know it will ruin their lives. Any reason is reason enough not to have a baby.
I'm not enforcing anyone to have a kid. I'm participating in this thread to share my thoughts on why I THINK babies are not a disgrace. Some other anons above during the thread stated explicitely this is the case for them and I wanted to share my thoughts. Can't you understand that? You misread my post at some parts, judging by how you said before I had some ''hate'' and I didn't had any ''respect'', so I'm going to assume you just jumped into my post and made-up some things.

>Also if you really respected women who don't have kids you wouldn't bitch that they are not "respectful" enough and talk about babies the way babies make them feel, completely disgusted.
I'm not the one being unrespectful with women that don't want kids, I'm making some points against those anons here like >>8774
that aren't being respectful with kids and whose posts are probably the dumbest bait ever, like the one anon that doesn't want any major resposability because she wants to play on her phone and CONSOOM >>8932
A woman that doesn't want kids has taken a decision like that because she's mature enough to do it. What I see here is mostly edgelords that compare babies to bugs like >>8696
I'm very respectful to women in real life that have taken this decision, don't tell me I have to be polite to some larper that exaggerates how babies make them feel.


>And you wouldn't ignore all the people they encountered that dismissed their feelings, people who often happen to be medical professionals who expose women to danger by denying women sterilization or even contraception.
I don't know what are you talking about. The only thing I'm sure is that a couple of anons here had no fucking idea about what PPD was until I answered this here>>8945
>But that's not what PPD is, it's a major mental disorder caused by a huge hormonal disbalance (straightly related to the birth, ''partum'' in latin) and other personal emotional circumstances. It's not just that you don't like being a mom, is far more complex and as I said, related to your endochrine system. It's almost if not a homonal-caused depression. Of course it needs and has to be treated with therapy and medication, like any other mental issue.

Regreting having a kid is not PPD. PPD, if treated correctly, may last a few weeks or months. Regreting having a kid is a personal opinion that you'll have forever. Please, don't mistake them.
Which, SURPRISE SURPRISE, didn't get any response because I bet many of you thought that don't wanting to be a mum is already PPD. Fucking kek

Either you're not reading my posts carefully enough to understand what I say in them or you're just making things up on purpose. Why the hell would you do that?

>>8945
>I despise this, although I understand it could be like this for some women.
Well, can't say i share the sentiment. I empathize with them, and think they should have the option to give the kid up and should actually do it because it would be better for the kid, but it's not aways possible. I do feel for the kid though.

>What I don't understand is why some people argue this is reason enough to not have a baby. Like, ''having a baby is completely unconvenient if you think about it because babies do x,y and z''.
Well, if you find babies annoying and do not want to sacrifice a few years of your life to this behaviour, that is enough reason to not have a baby in my view. You should only have and raise a baby if you know you want to and love them. If you think these behaviours are rage-worthy you will not enjoy having a small child, and this can lead to resentment and hate.

If it helps, i find animals completely wonderful. I can't find it in my heart to be mad at them or agree on how one can live without them. But some people despise pets because they make a mess and are needy. That does not mean they are bad people, and even if i personally find these reasons lacking in comparison to the love you get from them, i won't judge. Everyone has their preferences and deal breakers and no one should be forced to have one.

>I'm sorry, I still can't see why would you hate the kid. Would someone in that circumstances feel the same way about her baby when it's asleep or smiling at her? My point is, like I said, you would hate being a mom or hate hearing the baby scream, but not the baby itself. I see we don't share the same opinion, just wanted to specify. If you want to answer the question I made with your personal thoughts. I would find it very helpful.
Yes, you can hate the baby itself. You yourself seem to separate the behaviour from the baby, and see it as an innocent being that does not understand what it's doing, but other women see the baby itself as the problem. Think of it like an abusive parent with dementia(wild analogy sorry): If they hit you, scream at you, and break your things, logically you can know that it's not their fault as it is a mental illness, and there are quiet or sweet moments in between, but it will be easy to hate this person who is messing up your life even if they don't mean to or don't know what they're doing, and even if they get better with time it will not erase what you've been through. You might think it immoral, but some people simply cannot handle this without coming to hate, abuse or neglect their elderly parent, and so we have nursing homes, or adoption in the case of babies. Or, they might do it out of love and never cone to hate them. Different folks have different reactions and limits.

They do feel the same when the baby smiles or acts cute, because that does not erase all the stress and hate from before, they may even hate those breaks because it just gives a taste of the peace they could have, and smiles don't mean much if you hate a person, it can even be infuriating like "oh, you're having fun playing over there? well i'm miserable because of you, so fuck you".

My personal thoughts… i empathize with these women. I understand the why and how, doubly so if they were forced or pressured like we agreed on before. If i ever were to be a mother out of my own will, i'm sure i would do my best and love them even in these annoying moments (i like kids, of all ages) so i understand your reasoning, but i also choose not to because i have too many mental illnesses, trauma and am not well adjusted. I would not be able to raise a kid to their full potential and could be an awful mother. So, the only way for me to get pregnant would be if i was forced to and forced to keep and raise the baby (not many reproductive rights in my country) and that is honestly terrifying. It's likely i might end up resenting this forced baby and hating them, so i empathize with others in a similar situation. When it is a real possibility, it's so scary and leaves you feeling like an incubator, and you only think about getting out of the situation.

>Being common or not doesn't exclude it as an atrocity. Beating and killing wives it's pretty common in my country and I'm not separating those abusive husbands from other less steriotypical murderers.
I agree. That's why i think it's important to end the stigma about giving your kid away if you hate them or are desperate to the point of harming them. Having researched adoption laws here, it's really not easy and you will never be truly free from the child. I think this should change to help both mom and baby. And abortions being allowed and accessible like you said ofc.

>I see and although this isn't my personal case I have had people in my close family in this situation, a couple very young moms that neglected their kids.What I can't really picture is how there's so many girls ITT that say how they hate the thought of becoming mothers. We can't really tell, just like I want to have kids and believe I would love it and maybe I'm completely wrong about myself.
You can aways be wrong, but i think the majority can tell if they would like a kid or not. If you can't stand them (baby or grown), if you have other life plans, for ethical reasons or even if you don't think you're fit to be the best parent. I think it's valid, specially in this day and age, many more women are given a choice and see that their priorities and wishes lie elsewhere and not on a nuclear family. But yeah, you can aways be wrong about it, it's just easier to fix by conceiving and adopting/fostering later if you were wrong about hating kids so i would be more wary of anyone becoming a mom who is not sure about it than someone passing on it.

>Regreting having a kid is not PPD. PPD, if treated correctly, may last a few weeks or months. Regreting having a kid is a personal opinion that you'll have forever. Please, don't mistake them.
I see, but if you voice regret or not being able to care for your baby because you don't like or feel nothing for it, PPD will be the first thing people think. PPD seems to be very specific for sure (even like depression itself, which is not just feeling sad) but not to your normal person. I've seen a lot of defective mom = needs PPD treatment and forced bonding lately.

>I understand that a baby is needy and dependant, but calling babies selfish? I don't know.
I like them but small kids are notoriously selfish sometimes, they just aren't developed enough to be selfless until a certain point (i think about 6yo). They can be kind and sweet, but their needs do come first and they will act like so, and babies dgaf about you.

>Yes, I understand. The couple I worked for didn't like spending time with their kids, they both were a very career-orientated people that would probably chose not to have kids if they could go back in time.
Sheesh, that's sad for all of them :/

>That's why I'm not the kind of person that goes around telling other girls to have kids because they have to ( I hope I didn't give that expression through my posts). I'm okay with other girls not wanting kids, I just get frustrated when they talk about all babies like their some sort of plague. It's okay, they don't want kids, but sometimes I think they could be more respectful about it, I don't call anyone an old barren bitter maid. I like old barren bitter maids, I'm actually going to be one myself because I know kids don't fall from the sky. Girls that don't like kids could be more respectful about it, just like I said I may end up childless they could end up with 3 kids and a dog.
Nah it's cool. I didn't get the impression that you were pressuring anyone, just genuinely not understanding how some can hate their babies and such. I hope i didn't offend you either.

Yeah i agree that they should be more respectful, i'm not cool with people saying "babies are annoying" to mothers or mistreating kids who are just being kids. They're humans too.

I think it comes from being pressured to love and have babies? Personal experience but when you say you like kids but don't want them, you may get hit with annoying questions and people trying to convince you. It used to piss me off a lot when i was younger because no one took me seriously. And also there is the whole pressure from society thing, at least where i live. No abortions, no giving up for adoption, doctors can deny birth control or sterilization, but any girl who wants to conceive can walk in and medical professionals fall over themselves to help. It can leave you feeling pretty jaded torwards anything dealing with motherhood to be honest.

>>8954
What you're saying is
>I don't like your reasons so you must be a larper/you're not respectful
Which shows how dumb you are. Any reason is a good reason not to have children, plus people prioritize themselves and their happiness and don't like it when other people make threats at their life. You are stupid to be surprised that people don't mince words and are frank honest when mincing words and being wishy-washy only leads to more harassment.

>>8955
Sometimes i say "you" but i don't mean you yourself anon, i mean a generic reader i'm talking to. Just to clear it up.

>>8955
>Everyone has their preferences and deal breakers and no one should be forced to have one.
Yes,the example you used with animals it's very nice, I understand some poeple would find themselves more comfortable living in a farm for example than having a few kids.

>Different folks have different reactions and limits.
Yes. I am myself resenful towards most people except a few which I would forgive harsh stuff. I understand people function different when it comes to resentment, but I have to say that a baby is a very specific being, the things he can do are natural and with little intention at all. Maybe I was given the impression by some posts that what the baby does some anons see it a unjustifiable behaviour, when in this case the baby can't help it. The thing is I guess who is willing to stand this until he grows up and who doesn't.

>My personal thoughts… i empathize with these women. I understand the why and how, doubly so if they were forced or pressured like we agreed on before. If i ever were to be a mother out of my own will, i'm sure i would do my best and love them even in these annoying moments (i like kids, of all ages) so i understand your reasoning, but i also choose not to because i have too many mental illnesses, trauma and am not well adjusted. I would not be able to raise a kid to their full potential and could be an awful mother. So, the only way for me to get pregnant would be if i was forced to and forced to keep and raise the baby (not many reproductive rights in my country) and that is honestly terrifying. It's likely i might end up resenting this forced baby and hating them, so i empathize with others in a similar situation. When it is a real possibility, it's so scary and leaves you feeling like an incubator, and you only think about getting out of the situation.
This is very illuminating, reproductive rights in my country are quite okay and although I see abortion and adoption as two possibilities for an unwanted pregnancy, I have to admit I couldn't chose so easily if I were in that situation. Someone in a country where things aren't that easy, like you, would make a valid argument by pointing this out. But the impression other anons gave me with their posts like this one >>8932 is that they life in countries that don't have any tough legistation on the matter and just post ITT for the sake of spreading their individualistic and consumeristic (do these words even exist?) views of the world.
I see where the defensive attitude comes from, but I don't always feel like is valid.

> I've seen a lot of defective mom = needs PPD treatment and forced bonding lately.
That's disappointing to read, with the progress achieved nowdays by medical science and psychology this is outrageous.

>I like them but small kids are notoriously selfish sometimes
Yes, although I had in mind newborns.

>Yeah i agree that they should be more respectful, i'm not cool with people saying "babies are annoying" to mothers or mistreating kids who are just being kids. They're humans too.
This.

>I think it comes from being pressured to love and have babies? Personal experience but when you say you like kids but don't want them, you may get hit with annoying questions and people trying to convince you. It used to piss me off a lot when i was younger because no one took me seriously. And also there is the whole pressure from society thing, at least where i live. No abortions, no giving up for adoption, doctors can deny birth control or sterilization, but any girl who wants to conceive can walk in and medical professionals fall over themselves to help. It can leave you feeling pretty jaded torwards anything dealing with motherhood to be honest.
I see, this is quite honest and I completely agree with you here. In my country tho young couples are encouraged to consoom, you know, go traveling, buy expensive things, have a second/vacation home, etc.. It's disappointing because many couples and individuals fall for this and then when they realise they want children they need help to concieve (if they end up being able!) because they are almost 40, or don't have a partner to start a family with.

It was refreshing to find someone who doesn't feel things the way I do to talk about this topic!

>>8956
Can you explain this? :P
Also you didn't answer this here: >>8950
>The men who beat and kill wives have the power and possibility to leave, a woman with an unwanted baby doesn't. People will try to throw her baby at her. Babies are a trap and a shackle in a way that adults are not.
Are you really trying to justify infanticides?

>>8958
>But the impression other anons gave me with their posts like this one >>8932 is that they life in countries that don't have any tough legistation on the matter and just post ITT for the sake of spreading their individualistic and consumeristic (do these words even exist?) views of the world.

So, countries make legislations to make life better, which allows people to live life as they want it, and when they do this upsets you? This "individualistic and consumeristic" view of the world is perfectly valid, it's how people want to live. Would you rather force them to have kids they don't want becoming so the direct reason for the abuse their hated, unwanted kids will receive?

>>8959
I am justifying women who are abused into having children they don't want. Their actions are the result of the trauma imposed on these women by people like you, who don't accept their interests, their life and their choices.

>>8960
>Would you rather force them to have kids they don't want becoming so the direct reason for the abuse their hated, unwanted kids will receive?
Nope, I'm saying that I believe some anons that posted here (like the example I gave you) express a individualistic and consumeristic view of the world and an attitude towards life (where I include having children) that is partially a result of being backed by good laws that free them of having an unwanted kid. For the tenth time: I don't want anyone to have kids if they don't want to. What I dislike is people parading some exaggerated aversion towards kids. And I was saying that in my country the childfree life is enforced by consummerism and an individualistic position, and I don't like any of these. I believe there's people outhere that don't want kids and I respect that (said it for the elenth time), but I despise those who deny the fullfillment others find in having a family because they have replaced any meaningful life achievement (thad doesn't have to be necessarily a family) with consummerism. It upsets me that some people fall for this and realise they want a family when it's too late. Correlation isn't causation, I'm NOT saying that good laws about reproductive rights are bad for kids.

>>8961
>Their actions are the result of the trauma imposed on these women by people like you, who don't accept their interests, their life and their choices.
For the twelfth time, I respect women that don't want any kids and I wouldn't pressure anyone to have them, something something, I'm in favor of abortion and adoption. Funny you use trauma as a defese for your point but advocate infanticide.
Can't you read or do you have a victim complex?

>>8958
Likewise :) that was a good convo, thank you anon. You made me reflect a lot too and i agree with you mainly, also i had not thought about the perspective of countries who pressure young people to not have kids in a way, it seems so alien to me!

Thanks for explaining, i hope all countries reach a middle ground someday of not pressuring one way or another and just respecting everyone on their reproductive choices.

>>8964
>Thanks for explaining, i hope all countries reach a middle ground someday of not pressuring one way or another and just respecting everyone on their reproductive choices.
Yes, you made me think from a different perspective as well, thank you!

>>8963
>What I dislike is people parading some exaggerated aversion towards kids.
There's nothing exaggerated about it. See the picture here >>8953? That's only a fraction of the shit people, women especially, receive daily from other people when they decide not to have kids. People will assume you want kids and act offended when they discover you don't. They will question you, they will harass you, they will try to turn people against you, all because you don't want to fill the role they have arbitrarily assigned to you in their head, without even considering if you're okay with it. It's extremely rude and disrespectful, and it begets extreme aversion in turn.

>I despise those who deny the fullfillment others find in having a family
Not one single childfree person is denying the achievements or fulfillment of others when we state we don't want children. When I say I don't want children because they're annoying shits that don't let me live my life, I'm always talking about myself, not you or anyone else. Even if I use the generic "you", I'm talking for myself and about myself, full stop. If you think me talking about myself and my opinions is somehow a denial toward you, you need to see a mental health professional because it shows you are incapable of differentiating yourself from others.

>>8968
>That's your problem.
Nope, it's not my problem, it's a problem of society that affects the whole world. You're being delusional here.
> As I said, people want to enjoy their lives, and children interfere with that.
Some people enjoy their lifes having a family, that's a fact.
>I don't understand for irrational aversion for women who prioritize their well-being.
¿?

>>8967
>>8963
Adding also
> And I was saying that in my country the childfree life is enforced by consummerism and an individualistic position, and I don't like any of these

That's your problem. As I said, people want to enjoy their lives, and children interfere with that. That is a fact for all childfree people, for whom children do nothing but take away time and resources we childfree people would rather spend on what gives us joy, whatever that is. Yes, playing games on your phone included,if that's how one relaxes and she wants to relax without being forced to worry about a child.

I don't understand your irrational aversion to women who prioritize their well-being.

>>8969
See >>8970.
>it's a problem of society
No it's not. We live our life the way we want it. You seeing that as a problem shows you are the problem. Other people are not toys for you to use how you please.

>>8969
>Some people enjoy their lifes having a family, that's a fact.
And some people don't, that's a fact. Which you refuse to accept.

>>8969
>>8932 said:
>I want my freedom to relax and think only about myself.
To which you responded: "BAIT! Don't say that! I don't like that!"

Why do you hate women who prioritize their well-being?

>>8970
>I don't understand your irrational aversion to women who prioritize their well-being.
I don't understand your exaggeration. Why do you keep saying this when it's clear I don't have any aversion towards them? Did you run out of points?

>That's your problem.
Nope, it's a social issue that will affect us all. As I said for the 100th time, I'm okay with people not wanting kids. Do you understan that? Can you read?
>>8972
>And some people don't, that's a fact. Which you refuse to accept.
Please, learn how to read.
>>8971

>You seeing that as a problem shows you are the problem. Other people are not toys for you to use how you please.
Are you for real? God, I love the internet.

You look mad, you keep posting things I never said. If you had read my posts with your eyes rather than with with your ass maybe you wouldn't be answering with so much shitposting.

I'll make it clear for you, here's some things I said that may give you a clue about what are my thoughts on women that don't want any kis. Read carefully! ;)
1st post: >>8905
> Anons that don't like/want kids make some interesting posts
2nd post >>8933
>On thing is to dislike children in general and chose note to be a mother, I respect that.

3rd post >>8945
>That's why I'm not the kind of person that goes around telling other girls to have kids because they have to ( I hope I didn't give that expression through my posts).

4th post >>8950 (here is where you started making things up)
>Learn how to read, I explicitely said I don't hate women that chose not to have kids. I even said a couple of times I respect all those decissions to avoid misinterpretations of my point of view. I are mading all that up.

5th post >>8954 (here I tried to explain things to you but you wouldn't listen)
>As I said in some of my posts ITT, I respect women that chose not to have children and I understant those who are forced to have them are left in a miserable situation because they need to re-arrange their lifes after something as big as having a kid. What I don't understand is that you replied to my post like I am one of those people that shame women, and I'm not like that. I said earlier that I was open-minded and I asked for the other anon I was talking to to give me her thoughts on some stuff. In your late post you literally said:

>you:so your hate doesn't mean shit because she already feels nothing but pain and misery.

>And I repeat, you are not understanding my position if you come up with this.

6th post >>8958

>Yes,the example you used with animals it's very nice, I understand some poeple would find themselves more comfortable living in a farm for example than having a few kids.

7th post >>8963

>I believe there's people outhere that don't want kids and I respect that (said it for the elenth time),


Now, if you keep saying I hate women't that don't want kids or that I would use anybody as a toy you're just being retarded on purpose. What's your problem?

>>8974
>I don't have any aversion towards them
If you don't have any aversion why do you call other people's reasons for not having kids "bait" and not valid? See:

>>8958
>But the impression other anons gave me with their posts like this one >>8932 is that they life in countries that don't have any tough legistation on the matter and just post ITT for the sake of spreading their individualistic and consumeristic (do these words even exist?) views of the world. I see where the defensive attitude comes from, but I don't always feel like is valid.

Not wanting children because they don't let you have as much leisure time as you want for yourself is perfectly valid.

>>8976
I called it bait because I believe that post is a joke even if they say otherwise. Believing something is bait is very different for hating people or using them as toys, isn't it?

>Not wanting children because they don't let you have as much leisure time as you want for yourself is perfectly valid.
See>>8963

>Nope, I'm saying that I believe some anons that posted here (like the example I gave you) express a individualistic and consumeristic view of the world and an attitude towards life (where I include having children) that is partially a result of being backed by good laws that free them of having an unwanted kid. For the tenth time: I don't want anyone to have kids if they don't want to. What I dislike is people parading some exaggerated aversion towards kids. And I was saying that in my country the childfree life is enforced by consummerism and an individualistic position, and I don't like any of these. I believe there's people outhere that don't want kids and I respect that (said it for the elenth time), but I despise those who deny the fullfillment others find in having a family because they have replaced any meaningful life achievement (thad doesn't have to be necessarily a family) with consummerism. It upsets me that some people fall for this and realise they want a family when it's too late. Correlation isn't causation, I'm NOT saying that good laws about reproductive rights are bad for kids.

>>8977
Why would that post be a joke? I don't see anything about it that indicates it being a joke.
>Even if they say otherwise
Ah, so you presume to know people better than themselves?

>Believing something is bait is very different for hating people or using them as toys, isn't it?
Not really. It's the "You don't know what you want!" part of the bingo, when women who say they don't want kids because ____________ (insert reason here) are not believed because no way a woman could want that, amirite ladies?
It's extremely condescending, that's what it is.

>>8978
Have you realised already that I don't hate women that go childfree? Because I make huge posts so you understand my point of view correctly. With the other anon I had no problem telling her when I believed she was right or that maybe I didn't express myself with detail. Whereas you are just avoiding any answer to what I say, asking me more stuff without even taking the time (maybe because you don't want to admit it) to say: well, now I understand you, anon, or, okay, but I still see thing diffrently.
I believe it's a joke because she ended the post (after calling the hypothetical child a ''stupid idiot that hurts himself'', like she could be unsupervised when she was a kid and nothing would ever happen) and she ends the post like this:

>I want my freedom to relax and think only about myself.

An expression of thought that TO ME sounds ridiculous and selfish ( something quite a few of the anons that don't wan't kids have accused them of, the irony).

>Ah, so you presume to know people better than themselves?
Nope, I presume she/he is lying, that's why I say it's bait.

>It's extremely condescending, that's what it is.
Nope, since I'm pretty sure it's exaggeration or a lie: bait. It's an imageboard after all, I need to make my assumptions and I think I'm quite correct, given the expression the anon made. You instead accused me of hate various times despite it being obviouly not the case, which I explained here>>8975 backing it with fact. You don't read or don't react to my proves of what I said but don't like me to make assumptions about that funny post.

The fact that you weren't willing to accept the truth is condescending, whereas I can speculate over with that other hilarious post.

>>8977
You may claim that you don't hate women that go childfree but in practice you have shown you do given your reactions to the reasons stated ITT.

>I believe it's a joke because she ended the post (after calling the hypothetical child a ''stupid idiot that hurts himself'', like she could be unsupervised when she was a kid and nothing would ever happen)

It is exactly because children cannot be left unsupervised that many women don't want to have them. Having to worry means being stressed, having to worry constantly means being stressed constantly. Knowing how fucking horrible stress is to one's mental and physical well-being, it is unreasonable of you to be upset that a woman doesn't want to be stressed having to look over a child.

>An expression of thought that TO ME sounds ridiculous and selfish
Why? Do you think women don't deserve to relax? Do you think they should be constantly stressed and be happy about it?
Leisure is extremely important for anyone's well-being and how they perceive leisure (that is, how people relax and enjoy their time) is decided by them, not you.

>I presume she/he is lying
You have no reason to presume that other than your personal aversion for other people liking what you don't like, which is objectively a bullshit reason to presume things.

>>8981
Hi, I'm the anon that made >>8932 and I am not joking, nor lying, nor baiting. I mean 100% what I said. I also said that to you here: >>8935 which you ignored.

>>8981
>I want my freedom to relax and think only about myself.
>An expression of thought that TO ME sounds ridiculous and selfish ( something quite a few of the anons that don't wan't kids have accused them of, the irony).
well you wouldnt like it if people accused you of being brainwashed or selfish for wanting kids for any reason, so stop doing it to those who dont want to, so what if she wants no kids to have to herself and her hobbies you dont know her or her life, you talk about supporting but you go to call the ones you dont like selfish and ridiculous

>>8984
I admit I came in late in the thread, so I might have missed it, but where has anyone ITT called anyone selfish or brainwashed for wanting kids?

I have seen people being called selfish for wanting kids when those reasons were quite obviously selfish, for example a woman on reddit who couldn't find a man who would commit to her, who said she'd get IVF and have a kid to give her the company men wouldn't give. That is objectively a selfish reason to have kids. Children aren't your emotional support pet, not realizing they are their own person is going to psychologically damage a kid.

>>8985
no one said this i meant that this anon was saying women who dont want kids to have more free time are selfish and childish and she wouldnt like it if were reversed to calling her this for her choice

>>8987
Ah, my bad then. Thank you anon.

>>8982
>It is exactly because children cannot be left unsupervised that many women don't want to have them. Having to worry means being stressed, having to worry constantly means being stressed constantly. Knowing how fucking horrible stress is to one's mental and physical well-being, it is unreasonable of you to be upset that a woman doesn't want to be stressed having to look over a child.

It's not because she doesn't want any stress that I believe it's bait but because how egoistic it sounds to:
>I want my freedom to relax and think only about myself.
And I'm not upset about it, don't be wrong, I find the post hilarious.

>Do you think women don't deserve to relax?
Yes, anon,that's exactly what I spent the whole evening writing about. I'm a space lizard that hates female humans having time for themselves, this was a huge secret until you discoreved me. I must run away to Jupiter now.

I was joking anon, what I said in my last paragraph was a joke.

>You have no reason to presume that other than your personal aversion for other people liking what you don't like
Lmao, I have a reason: the undertones of the post. And I don't dislike childfree people. May I remind you mi magnus opera? >>8975

>>8983
Hello, how convenient of you to show up now.

>>8984

> if people accused you of being brainwashed or selfish for wanting kids for any reason, so stop doing it to those who dont want to

I didn't call anyone brainwashed. Don't put words in my mouth that I didn't said. I explained my point of view carefully in this post. I'm not arguing with someone that lies so blatantly about what other say. Read this if you want to keep in the discussion, this is my post about my personal thought and current situation in my country. Don't jump to any unreasonable conclusions. As for the post I said it sounded selfish to me, yes I believe saying this:

>, I want my freedom to relax and think only about myself.

Is selfish, if you don't agree I don't care.

>>8987
>his anon was saying women who dont want kids to have more free time are selfish and childish and she wouldnt like it if were reversed to calling her this for her choice
You don't know how to read yet. I said I believed that post was bait and expressing a selfish point of view. I was calling selfish that post only, not women that don't want any kids. Because, and for the 1000th time: I respect those who don't want any kids.

You keep puting words in my mouth I didn't said when in fact I said more than a couple of times than women that don't want kids have my respect, my big post that you keep ignoring:>>8975


Why are you still lying about me? Why do you keep saying I don't respect those who don't want any children?

>>8996
> I explained my point of view carefully in this post.
Here: >>8963

>Nope, I'm saying that I believe some anons that posted here (like the example I gave you) express a individualistic and consumeristic view of the world and an attitude towards life (where I include having children) that is partially a result of being backed by good laws that free them of having an unwanted kid. For the tenth time: I don't want anyone to have kids if they don't want to. What I dislike is people parading some exaggerated aversion towards kids. And I was saying that in my country the childfree life is enforced by consummerism and an individualistic position, and I don't like any of these. I believe there's people outhere that don't want kids and I respect that (said it for the elenth time), but I despise those who deny the fullfillment others find in having a family because they have replaced any meaningful life achievement (thad doesn't have to be necessarily a family) with consummerism. It upsets me that some people fall for this and realise they want a family when it's too late. Correlation isn't causation, I'm NOT saying that good laws about reproductive rights are bad for kids.

Please, r e a d s l o w l y.

>>8996
…wanting freedom to relax and enjoy yourself is selfish? bitch fuck off

>>8996
>I respect those who don't want any kids.
yeah you respect them as long as they dont want kids for the reasons you deem acceptable. anon wanting to take care of herself is not good enough for you so shes selfish huh

>>9002
Then come and shoot me

Honesty, I'm thankful that my parents never put pressure on me or my sisters to have children

>>9022
Same, although my mom would love to be a grandmother. Hopefully my older sister will fulfill her desire.

>>9007

>…wanting freedom to relax and enjoy yourself is selfish?

You missed on purpose the last part when it said … to think only about myself

Here >>8932

Fuck off to 2nd grade and learn how to read.

>>9024
bicth YOU learn how to read. she says she wants a freedom that comes without looking after anyone and to enjoy herself and her hobbies. is she supposed to be mother theresa and aways think about others before you respect her damn decision?
its no less selfish than bringing a whole life into this world because you want to fulfill your desires of raising one instead of adopting but i get a feeling you dont find birthing children and ivf selfish.

>>9025
>''think only about myself''
>not selfish

Don't call me bitch and learn how to read, please.

>>9025
>>9027
At this point it's just ridiculous that you don't want to admit that you've been misreading my posts and puting words in my mouth . Now you're just plain plain insulting me because you've got nothing better to do. You kept saying I hated childfree people and I showed you prove about how wrong you were >>8975 But never got any response for that.

I exposed my personal thoughts on why I believe there's so few children in my country this days here >>8963

>Nope, I'm saying that I believe some anons that posted here (like the example I gave you) express a individualistic and consumeristic view of the world and an attitude towards life (where I include having children) that is partially a result of being backed by good laws that free them of having an unwanted kid. For the tenth time: I don't want anyone to have kids if they don't want to. What I dislike is people parading some exaggerated aversion towards kids. And I was saying that in my country the childfree life is enforced by consummerism and an individualistic position, and I don't like any of these. I believe there's people outhere that don't want kids and I respect that (said it for the elenth time), but I despise those who deny the fullfillment others find in having a family because they have replaced any meaningful life achievement (thad doesn't have to be necessarily a family) with consummerism. It upsets me that some people fall for this and realise they want a family when it's too late. Correlation isn't causation, I'm NOT saying that good laws about reproductive rights are bad for kids.

And I even pointed out the post that lead us (myself and the anon I was talking to) to express such thoughts which I believe are also political. This post: >>8932

That post which I believe it perfectly encapsulates what I was referring to with consummerism (not brainwashin, the words you used here >>8984).

These are the words that lead me to believe it was bait:

>I want to play videogames on my phone, read a book, watch netflix, lie down and fall asleep, eat a snack, take a shower, do whatever I feel like doing in the moment.

>I will be held responsible if the stupid idiot hurts himself while alone.

> I don't want that responsibility, I want my freedom to relax and think only about myself.

Because what better defense to the childfree life than calling a hypothetical child stupid and express how cool is life when you can spend the day on the couch watching TV and caring only obout yourself.

*Does this mean that I don't believe there's any good reasong for childfree life ? NOPE, for the 14000th time: I'm okay with that.

What I'm not okay with is consummerism and selfishness, and all that being driven by this capitalistic retarded world that wants us to consoooom. Because many of you will never have kids because you don't want to, FINE, but don't advocate in favor of being fucking manchildren that would rather watch Netflix and play on their phone than fucking doing somethin in this hell on earth we live, like planting trees. If anyone wants to consoom instead of planting trees, raising awareness on climate change or things like that they better don't get all piss of because they're actually becoming the children that don't hold any responsability.

Now we could argue if you believe there's a relation and a conspiracy around consummerism and anti-natalism or not.

>>9031
ah you're just an anti-consumerist nutjob
whatever bitch, whether they want to spend all day watching netflix or all day planting trees and helping kittens theyre equally valid reasons to not want kids. stop judging other people, cancel your internet and all unnecessary spending and go to africa to help poor children since youre such a moral person

>>9039
>go to africa to help poor children since youre such a moral person
it's not going yo happen, bitch

>>9047
Yes, any baby sounds make me cringe. Even a babies laughter. I think a neighbor in my apartments had a baby recently because there has been nonstop screaming. I absolutely do not want to go through that.

>>9047
yes. very much so, yes. i'm also really bitchy if i get woken up at night. my neighbor woke me up at 11 pm and then again at 7am, and i just started screaming through the walls at him to shut the fuck up and i cursed him out. he hasn't made a peep since. the only time i ever get angry is when woken up at night, actually, and otherwise i'm calm as a zen monk. but wake me up and it's a nuclear explosion. so when i woke up properly i kind of felt bad for yelling but 7 am me was done with it. so if i had a kid and the fucking kid woke me up 5x a night crying that it shat itself again or it wanted to suck my tit or god knows what reason i'm honestly afraid i'd throw the baby straight out the window. sleep deprived me is really scary. and when my sleep is interrupted i have a migraine the entire next day. so 2+ years per kid of constant daily migraines? uh, no. nah. lmao. idk how people manage but i'm not kidding that i would unironically smother that fucking kid. of course i would feel bad in the morning but that wouldn't un-kill the baby.

speaking of, i also just managed to kill my succulent. it was doing fine one day and then it was shriveled and dead the next. idk.

>>9061
Do you have bipolar. Not trying to be rude.

Yesterday was one of those rare days in my life when I felt sad for not having a baby. There were happy mothers and fathers and babies and children everywhere I went.
It's natural I assume, something in your brain is telling you that you want it.
And luckily there is something else in my brain telling me I don't want it.

>>9063
Stop, go and read what bipolar actually is

>>9065
Just asked because I know someone with bipolar who acts in the exact same way. I always thought it was related. My bad.

Why did the /b/ thread get redirected here? This is about not having children at all, that one was about adopting a child.

>>9073
The /b/ thread was about a childfree woman pressured by her family to adopt her brother's kid who got taken away by CPS, because her family does not accept her desire to never have kids. It's relevant to this thread because it shows how people do not respect a woman's choice to never have children, biological or adopted, and that causes harm to childfree women.

>>9074
That doesn't sound like OP's post, which doesn't apply to adoption at all.

Do woman who biologically can't (not won't, can't) have children get pressured by their family to adopt? I've never heard of such a thing. What OPs describing is different from adoption.

>>9075
>Do woman who biologically can't (not won't, can't) have children get pressured by their family to adopt?
It happens.

>What OPs describing is different from adoption.
Which OP are you talking about here?

>>9076
>It happens.
On the societal level that parents expect their children to have children?

>Which OP are you talking about here?
This one. OP has nothing to do with adoption. Other than the vague notion that people being pressured to adopt are similar to those who are pressured to take on the biological burden to be a mother.

>>9077
>On the societal level that parents expect their children to have children?
I don't know what you mean here. It happens less often than pushing people to have biological kids since people don't care for other people's kids generally, but the /b/ thread is about a childfree woman being pushed by her family to adopt her nephew that her brother had with his methhead gf, so the family doesn't see the kid as a stranger there and expects her to step up and clean a man's mess.

>OP has nothing to do with adoption
It happens less often but childfreedom does include rejecting adoption when it's offered.

>>9078
>I don't know what you mean here. It happens less often than pushing people to have biological kids since people don't care for other people's kids generally
Exactly, which is why this thread isn't relevant to it.
>but the /b/ thread is about a childfree woman being pushed by her family to adopt her nephew that her brother had with his methhead gf, so the family doesn't see the kid as a stranger there
Correct, again, what does that have to do with this thread, that, in your own words, is not common to "childfreedom" at all?
>and expects her to step up and clean a man's mess.
The man had the baby in isolation? Are we ignoring the gf? Why put all the responsibility on it being a mess on the man? Unless you're arguing the methhead gf was forced to have a child and forced to give birth to it?

Either way, it's her choice to have the child thrown at the adoption system, which is a 100% okay.

>It happens less often but childfreedom does include rejecting adoption when it's offered.
When the fuck is adoption "offered"? Adoption is a system you put yourself in, not something forced on you. Even in adopted nephew's case she has the power to do nothing about the child. Offered is not the right word at all.

>>9079
Not common != never happens.
Not common simply means it happens less often, but it still happens, and when it does it's relevant because it's pushing a woman to have children she doesn't want.

>Are we ignoring the gf?
The gf is reported to be a methhead, what kind of man gets a drug addicted pregnant? Where he sticks his dick in is his responsibility and it's his responsibility not to impregnate drug addicts.

>When the fuck is adoption "offered"?
In that thread's case it was more "attempted to be forced on", yeah. The power to refuse came at the cost of losing her family and being hated by her family members, something hurtful and terrible to most people.

>>59001
Makes no sense that the mods redirect your post here, but what's done is done.

Don't feel bad about not taking the baby. It wasn't your choice to have it and it ultimately your choice to not have one. Sucks you have to lose your family though, I hope they can see your side of the story. I hope your brother doesn't keep spawning meth babies, this world hard enough as it is. They tend too have medical problems.

>>9080
>Not common != never happens.
Correct. What does that have to do with anything? That doesn't change that, fundamentally, the two are separate topics.
>The gf is reported to be a methhead, what kind of man gets a drug addicted pregnant?
I dunno, maybe a methhead bf? Why does being a methhead exonerate the woman of responsibility but not the man? Does the male have intrinsic qualities that allow him to withstand meth addiction better?
>Where he sticks his dick in is his responsibility and it's his responsibility not to impregnate drug addicts.
Again, he's also a drug addict. Why are you placing all the blame on the man when they're both drug addicts?

>The power to refuse came at the cost of losing her family and being hated by her family members, something hurtful and terrible to most people.
And? Decisions have consequences. Are you implying that she should face no consequences for refusing to take care of her nephew and throwing him at the legal system? She has every right to stop communicating with a family that pushes children on her as the family has to stop talking to her for not wanting to take on an extra burden.

>>9082
Nowhere in the thread it says he's also a drug addict, why are you making shit up?

>Are you implying that she should face no consequences for refusing to take care of her nephew and throwing him at the legal system?
Yes, of course. Her nephew is someone else's mistake, she shouldn't be berated for not wanting to pay for someone else's problem.

>>9082
He should know drug addicts are not fit to take care of people, so impregnating one is pure irresponsibility on his part. He chose to stick his dick in meth, he could have not done so, but he chose to do that and now he must pay. Especially because he is not reported to be a junkie at all.

>>9083
NTA but if he's not a methhead why doesn't he have legal rights to his kid?

>>9084
Why is CPS taking the child away from him then?

>>9085
The OP doesn't say. Statistically the most reported reason why men don't have custody is because they don't seek it in court.

>>9086
If I had to guess, it's because people who impregnate methheads aren't any better than methheads themselves.

>>9087
You're telling me the family came to a collective decision that he shouldn't have to raise his own child?

>>9088
In that case he sounds mentally ill if he isn't any better, and thus able to be exonerated from responsibility on cause of being mentally unfit.

>>9089
And not only that, apparently they came to the collective conclusion that his sister should raise the child instead, without asking the OP if she was okay with that or not.

>>9090
Nah, you don't have to be mentally unfit to be a piece of shit.

>>9093
>Defeats the purpose of a easy break up
Not everyone expects a break up. And plenty of people move in together before getting married. Some people date the same person for 10 years before getting married. Maybe where anon lives it's more financially responsible to buy a house. Methheads are abundance in small towns because of "nothing else to do," bullshit reasoning. I wish it was a inner-city only problem.

>>9089
Since when are males held to any real responsibility toward their children?

>>9094
>Not everyone expects a break up.
Then why not get married?
>And plenty of people move in together before getting married.
Yes, to a fucking apartment they don't own. What kind of headspace are you in when you feel confident enough to buy a house with someone but not marry them?
>Some people date the same person for 10 years before getting married.
Correct, unrelated to the question.
>Maybe where anon lives it's more financially responsible to buy a house.
In what plane of existence is it more financially responsible to buy a house then rent from one, unless you desiring to be permanently anchored, which implies settling down. It is never financially responsible to take on the massive debt of buying a house over renting unless you plan to either rent said house yourself, or never move away from it.
>Methheads are abundance in small towns because of "nothing else to do," bullshit reasoning. I wish it was a inner-city only problem.
Well that and no moral framework in society to discourage the behavior.

>>9095
Do you have any idea what a "shotgun marriage" is?

>>9096
A way to trap a young girl in an abusive marriage?

>>9097
Sure. Doesn't mean that it isn't also a way to force men to take "real responsibility". "Real responsibility" isn't always desirable.

>>9096
>Then why not get married?
Some people just dont put the same amount of importance of the idea of getting married. Theyre happy the way the are.

I mean a payment plan is just as good as rent. Plus if it doesn't work out they can always move or sell the house.

She said she is marring the guy, maybe they are planning a big wedding.


Why are you so fixated on being married?

>>9098
>Doesn't mean that it isn't also a way to force men to take "real responsibility"

He can always beat the woman into doing the job of childraising for him, pretty common with shotgun marriages.

>>9096
Im >>9099 I have more to add
Now that I think about living in a apartment together isn't a easy break up either. Sometimes finding a apartment in the last minute is hard and not guarantee. Then there the down payments, credit check, if they don't have good credit then good luck, then there's the who owns what. DONT FORGET sometimes to have to pay extra to break a lease on an apartment! And if one of you cant move out right away then the have to awkwardly live together for a while. SO why not buy a house if they can afford it? It would be the same awkward process if they didnt work out.

Plus marriages can always end in a divorce or a awkward separation where you cant divorce because the other person wont sign the paper. A marriage isn't a guarantee happy relationships. A lot of people get married for the wrong reasons. People get divorce for simply falling out of love. Life just happens.

>>9102
I just don't see why not buy a house with your S.O. even if you don't plan on getting married. Single people own house too. You dont have to be married to live in a house with someone.
Its just a piece of paper.

But OP said she is getting married anyway, so who cares if she already bought the house before had? Maybe the stars align and it was the perfect house, then yes buy it.
If they break up they can sell the house and split the money.

In the end I dont get marriages despite being in a 7 year ltr.

>>9104
I dont have a reason not to. But Im not going to do it.

>>9106
Then it doesnt matter they bought a house together before marriage.
In the end they have great credit and they're happy.

>>9107
Doesn't matter? Yes. Isn't fundamentally strange? Nope.

>>9108
Doesn't matter if it's fundamentally strange. They're living their life. Who's to say it'll end a travesty.

>>9109
No one in this thread but you.

>>9110
I did not. I just said that ending a relationship in a apartment can be as messy as one with owning a house.
So it doesnt matter that they had bought a house.

>>9111
You didn't say this?
>>9109
>it'll end a travesty.

>>9112
I said
>Who is to say it'll end in a travesty
Read the whole sentence. Don't come at me with selective reading. I mean it's not our call to say that buying a house will automatically bring misfortune to a couple who is not married-yet. So who cares that they bought a house.

>>9113
>buying a house will automatically bring misfortune to a couple who is not married-yet.
Why would you say that?

>>9104
oh honey you have a lot left to learn how finance works :)

>>9143
Are you suggesting that the finances of a marriage certificate are worse than the finances of a mortgage? Do you own a house?

>>9137
Literally every single person on earth is selfish. Kids just haven't learned to keep that sort of stuff to themselves.

i raised my siblings and i don't want to raise another child. i've had enough of that life. yes yes that was a lifetime ago i've heard it before. i would be a terrible mother anyway and i don't want to carry on my abusive mother's bloodline anyway.

>>9217
But send time with someone who is openly selfish?

I'm still in my early 20s but I can pretty easily see myself living childfree. I have a boyfriend that eventually I'd like to marry but god, having nieces really illustrates how much can go wrong and how much of your life children can eat up even in the best case scenario. Having a fertility disorder that takes a lot of choice away helps lol.

>>109
I have two old cousins in their 70s that could never have kids. They've been spending their entire lives traveling the globe and visiting whoever they want, whenever they want. Last I heard they're living out of an RV and are both pretty damn healthy for their ages.

>>9103
>In the end I dont get marriages despite being in a 7 year ltr.
Taxes.

Anyone once didn’t want kids, but now do? I’m 19. My boyfriend wants kids in the future but I’m undecided, leaning toward not wanting them. Whenever I’m in public and I hear some child screaming or crying, it just reinforces it. I could never be a daycare worker. I’ve also never found babies cute.

I feel like, if my kid started crying/screaming/having a tantrum (which I did a LOT as a kid so it could pass down), I would simply walk out of the room, into a locked bedroom, and put on some noise cancelling headphones. I would feel to stressed and overwhelmed to deal with that shit, especially as an autistic woman.

>>11185
Samefagging because I keep thinking about this, but there are also parts about having a kid that sound appealing. I think of comfy things like family movie nights. I just don’t know. I caused so many problems for my parents as an aspie “problem child.” I couldn’t deal with what my mom went through. I get extremelt stressed and overwhelmed, easily. At the same time, I don’t know what I will do for 60 years. But also, I want to be an INDIVIDUAL, and not just “a mother” if that makes sense. The loss of time caused by taking care of your children distresses me. Childbirth also horrifies me. Just kill me anons.

>>11186
Hope this doesn’t sound patronising but you’re 19 and most people have their kids in their 30s these days. You’re probably not going to stay with your current bf until then so don’t stress about it now if you’re not sure. Definitely don’t have a child unless you 100% want it.

>>11185
19 is too fucking soon atleast at 25+
Its not like there is a world war going on.

>>11192
>You’re probably not going to stay with your current bf
Don’t project your committment issues onto me lol
>>11196
Yeah, I wasn’t suggesting I have kids right now, just in the far future, like late late 20s or 30s.

>>11198
You don't have to be the one to fuck up your relationship,it could also be your bf

>>11198
I meant you're probably going to grow apart and want different things. It's natural.

>>11199
>>11200
It could happen. I’m sorry anons. Anger issues lol

>>11185
I think it's normal to not want kids when you're 19 and still technically an adolescent.
I never wanted kids when I was a teen but once I got to my mid 20s, I do find kids quite cute and wouldn't mind having one if I had the finances and other resources to care for one. Never found babies cute, but like the ones aged 3-14ish are adorable.

>>11192
This.
Also, you should definitely make sure you're in a healthy, long term relationship if you can find one and have the money saved up to provide a child with what they need and also to not be working like 12 hours a day since kids require a lot of attention and you have to drive them around places, help them with homework, and such. You should have all that prepared before having a kid so you don't end up neglecting them.

>>9137
I genuinely think the kids pick it up from their parents. There just happens to be a lot of shitty parents. When I meet the parents of a nice kid, they tend to be nice.

>>11185
>I could never be a daycare worker.
Neither could a lot of people who have kids.

FWIW, I've heard that a lot of people change once their kid is actually born. Biologically, they become bonded with the child through oxytocin. And just the concept that you just brought a new life into the world is so beautiful that you change as a person. But I don't have kids either so I can't tell you from personal experience.

>>11264
Doesn't work for everyone. Some women get depression or psychosis. Some just feel nothing towards their child. I wouldn't count on the loving feelings coming if you are unsure beforehand.

>>105
There are many sound arguments against having children, children are not for everybody and not everybody should have children. But if pic related is the reason you have something against children never become a pet owner, because animals are more dirty than children. Children will start to take care of their own filth and leave you when they are adult. With a pet you have to constantly clean away their shit for their entire 15-25 year lifespan.

Every catowners home smells after the litterbox, catowners may become accustomed to the smell but every visitor will get a wiff of the catshit. Responsible dog owners don't let their dogs shit lay around and in some parts of the world you get fined if you do it. Which means everytime you go out with the dog, you have to take a plastic bag at least once and grab their shit. Animals don't shower or bath like humans do and so its basically living with a person that never showers, their smell and bodyfat will seep into any surface they regularly sit or lie upon. If your animal is stressed from a bad day or has mental issues, they will destroy your home and piss/shit at the walls. Their hairs will be everywhere and you will find them years after the animal has died. And your pet will get sick/get covered in parasites and you will have the option of watching it die a slow death or paying out the ass for a veterinarian. Sometimes both happens. Had a middle aged dog once, who suddenly started to vomit blood. Went to the veterniarian, who took hundreds of bucks for two injections that did jack shit. Next animal clinic was two cities away and the treatment would cost the price of a family car. So not an option. The dog died after 3 days of vomiting and I never learned the reason why it happened because an autopsy would have also cost and arm and a leg and I needed the money to pay a crime scene cleaner to clean my home.

>>11264
Agreed, but for different reasons. Having a child is much different than working with young children. As long as you don’t have 3+ young children at the same time you will never have to managing children in the same way a daycare would since kids do grow up and become more self-sufficient. Plus, when children are at home they’re easier to manage since they aren’t held to a daycare schedule and can self-manage better since they can have some choice on what they do.
There’s ways that being a parent is worse (kids are usually much more emotional with their parents and you rarely get a break from your kids) but I know plenty of otherwise great parents who are terrible at dealing with other people’s kids.

I have a child. She is 2 months old. I have always wanted children. I told my husband I will have as many as he can afford. My pregnancy was terrible. I was huge and uncomfortable. I have PMDD so I was suicidal almost the whole time. I had an emergency c-section and the recovery from having 7 layers of my skin ripped open was terrible.

She is 2 months old now. I love her. She is my whole world. I so much want her to grow up well-adjusted and properly cared for unlike I was.

She stole my body when I was pregnant. Now she cannot sleep anywhere but on my body during the day. I cannot eat or pee or do anything during this time. I don't shower often because I'd rather sleep when she does. I'm exhausted.

And every day I am reminded of my terrible childhood. I remember things my mother did to me, and now I have a child to imagine doing the same things to. It turns my stomach.

This is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and personally for me, I find it rewarding. I want her to value and love herself and raise up others. But I could never recommend this to anyone. I would never encourage anyone to have a child.

>>14926
>>14926
Um, sorry about the unsolicited advice, but anon, do yourself a favor and stay away from places like this. You might not think so, though some of the things you'll read in threads like this alongside other childfree spaces will live in the corners of your mind.

Also I'd recommend slowly weaning her off that behavior. I'm sure there's a good space online to ask for such advice.

>>14926
The fact that having a child is irreversible scares me. The only reason I would want to have a kid is because I’m afraid of loneliness. Once my parents die I will be completely without family because I’m an only child. But I probably still won’t have a kid.

I don't want to take care of a kid, it's unenjoyable, ungrateful and just stupid work. I can think of a whole lot of things that are a way better spending of my time than changing diapers, making lunchboxes or washing 5 loads of laundry every week, no thanks.

No hate on women who do choose to have kids tho, good for you if you end up loving it as much as you thought you would, I just don't feel that way.

I'd rather take care of a manchild. Especially a mentally ill, drug-addicted NEET shut-in who is completely dependent on you. Imagine preparing his favorite meals (instant ramen and slim jims) for him so his video game time isn't disturbed. Imagine tidying his room and snooping on his private belongings and contacts. Imagine giving him a bath because he lacks conscientiousness too much to do it himself and combing his hair. Aw, so cute. Imagine tucking him in and reading him boring male philosophy until he is fast asleep. A real child could never be so rewarding.

>>14934
>Imagine preparing his favorite meals (instant ramen and slim jims)
no tendies?

>>14935
Of course! And tendies on special occasions.

>>14934
gross, this isn't the fetish thread

>>14934
yeah but he'd probably want to have sex with you, no thanks lol

>>14934
tried this and got so severely mentally ill i tried to off myself.

>>14932
I thought this too, the only reason I would have a kid would be to get rid of any potential loneliness. But then I realised I could have a pet, like a dog or a cat, which would be 1000% better than dealing with a baby.

I’ve been pregnant before (I got a termination) and I felt absolutely no connection to it, I didn’t magically feel like I was destined to be a nurturing figure. I just never want kids. Sure, they’re (sometimes) cute and happy and bubbly. But looking after them 24/7? No way, thanks.

>>14932
>>14992
>The only reason I would want to have a kid is because I’m afraid of loneliness.
>the only reason I would have a kid would be to get rid of any potential loneliness
we all die alone. even if you have kids for reasons like this the kid might grow up to abandon you, resent you, never visit you, stick you in a shitty home with abusive staff and forget about you; etc. i'm not saying the alternative of living alone and only having your body discovered when your neighbors notice the stench is better. rather, what you need to do, kids or not, is have habits and routines that involve sociability, friends, hobbies. whether it be joining a society for the elderly, a charity group, a hobby group, posting routinely on facebook, taking morning walks that bring you along a visible route, attending the weekly coffee meetups or watching sports games with your elderly friends, that sort of thing.

I had no idea this thread even existed! Why is it in HB though?

Have you seen it? What do you think?

>>15759
Maybe because pregnancy deteriorates health? Idk

35 years old and I'm happy every day I never had kids. I feel zero desire or "craving" to have kids. None of my peers that are mothers are happy. They're all mommy-maid-whores with no hobbies who sleep 4 hours a night while their husbands play Call of Duty and watch porn

Reproduction is a trap for women and an absolute scam. The existential notion of "you must pass on your genes" is self-aggrandizing crap. If you want a legacy, figure out how to improve the planet for future women

>>15976
Obviously plenty of women fail at it, but becoming a mom is life's hard mode and this fact has been stolen away from potential mothers and mothers since the beginning of time and I'm not at all surprised it is.

You basically need a strong, caring, intelligent support network around you and a very resilient personality type to at all not make it ridiculously stressful and most people don't have one, and can't easily get one.

Also I'm not saying all mothers are just really stressed out, but the physical, emotional damage is real regardless, as well as basically expending 10000s of unpaid labor for a tiny human that is severely devalued by society.

>>15759
it was too controversial for /b/, i guess. meanwhile the pro-natalist thread there is still up

>>16033
How in the heck is this too controversial for b??

>>15995

I agree with a lot of what you said, and any woman who doesn't have a good support network should steer clear of motherhood

I don't feel bad for a lot of modern mothers. I've always known motherhood sucks and it's just indentured servitude that gets actively degraded. Everyone knows it.

Like, I'm sick of seeing women fall into obvious traps and then feel bad for themselves. I understand some get trapped into motherhood by rape or circumstance and I feel deep sympathy for them. I want to see the world improve for mothers.

In the mean time, any woman who goes willingly into motherhood isn't deserving of pity if her partner is a subpar male who won't pitch in and her parents and in-laws are not supportive. Especially if she HAS to continue working to support the family - this is the absolute stupidest fucking thing women do outside of sucking dick without demanding an orgasm in return.

I suspect many women do it for the same reason as men - terror management. Life is existentially scary, we know we're going to die, without religion we lack purpose, so shitting out a child seems like an easy default for "my life has meaning" (protip - it doesn't work, just like having a romantic relationship doesn't automatically cure loneliness and depression)

>>16046
I can't say I feel the same about such women though I half agree with the other stuff.

A lot of this shit involves society making false promises to women, then it feeds off their undervalued caring/labor afterwards. And you might not like it, but this says more about how efficient the system's conditioning can be…more than how "dumb" such women are. Yes, even the ones that choose it, willingly.

So many of these women are actual technically well-adjusted people that just…buy into what they've been taught and then they might suffer the consequences much later on in their lives. A lot of the stuff we here take for granted is taboo elsewhere. And this isn't without function–
A woman that starts realizing how tenuous and entropic having a child, succumbing to anxiety is…probably going to crash and burn sooner than a woman with conviction and little doubt–even if it's founded on copes or ideology, it can work.

With you, it seems like you've actually kneeled to the "blame women" angle that's pushed heavily. Yes. Some blame rests on women over getting into bad situations, but most of it is simply that the system doesn't want to tell women what is likely to happen–and wants to suppress this information and frame it as the words of just a random few instead of, say…admitting stuff like how most men viscerally devalue women when they have a child, or won't function as a good dad, or how much of it is simply extremely devalued and underappreciated labor….which society absolutely loves. Of course it does.

It's already common for groups of mothers to discourage themselves from speaking freely about the worst parts of being a mother (be is brutal specifics or damage to their bodies, or how they no longer have time for themselves. Or, how their partner never stepped up). And this isn't really just about conforming but…that reality is brutal, so brutal that it disenchants and disillusions so the people that have a vested interest in it conceal it to protect their own mental health. We're thoroughly toasted here so we know the worst, lol, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone that already has a child.

Oh. And your read on "if her partner is a subpar male" is more awkward than anything because, like… in real life, many or most people that are earnest and devoted won't frame their partners in a metric like this. A woman that goes along with it literally isn't choosing to be with a "subpar male" in most cases because she sees a person capable of multitudes or stepping up. She isn't focusing on the bones, the keel, the numbers, the stressors…at least not at first. As much as I like criticizing men, I don't think that women that are unaware makes her look like shit undeserving of empathy to dare to see someone in such a graceful light.
Now, if they start running around telling other women to accept such behavior, then that's another thing altogether. >_>

>>16052

>>16052

I don't think pointing out that some women did this to themselves when they could have, I don't know, done literally anything else with their life is the equivalent of putting the blame on women or absolving men. And if women can't self critique and understand how we are culpable in our own oppression, we will never be able to fight it.

Women's tendency to "see the good in men" is mostly rationalizing away their shitty traits in order to be able to accept them as a partner. Most humans - male and female - are afraid of being alone, but also afraid of taking chances with high stakes. That's why people ending up in relationships with someone they've 'settled' for, rather than someone they really desired, is such a prevalent stereotype.

A lot of middle class women who walk willingly into the trap of motherhood do so because they feel bored and all their friends are doing it. It's conformity and, in a way, laziness.

Two of my closest female friends had kids for that exact reason and regretted it after. They also told me I am the only person they've admitted this to. I see them, in front of everyone else, play the Happy Good Mommy For Whom Childbirth Was The Greatest Day Of Their Life.

I would be happy for them if THEY were happy, but they aren't. They're exhausted and they're not allowed to express their true feelings or they'll be labeled monsters and Bad Mothers. They'll keep their mouths shut and keep going through the motions for the next two decades.

And being socialized to not worry about the ability of males as partners to actually act as supportive partners and parents is just another example of how we allow ourselves to be exploited willingly. Women SHOULD care if a man qualifies as a "subpar male" if they want to have a family with him. Does he make very little money and have low self esteem? He's DEFINITELY going to be a shit father.

Both of my aforementioned friends still work. One has a good husband that at least splits housework and childcare 50/50 no questions asked. The other friend? Her husband does not clean and plays call of duty. He has a work-from-home job. She works a shit brutal job and literally sleeps 4 hours a night. She just took on a second job as a real estate agent so they can buy a house. Yet he has time to play video games at least 2 hours a day to "unwind". She accepts this because he was like this before the kid.

I know one and only one woman, ever, who truly wanted a kid and was happy to have one. She had an accomplished life beforehand (college educated, served in the military, traveled around the world, won dance and downhill skiing competitions, then got yet another college degree later in life) and a devoted husband. She also stopped at one kid.

>>16052

I also think women who keep their mouths shut about how shitty motherhood is are, in their own way, class traitors and collaborators.

Girls deserve to know how bad it is. And guess what - women really aren't ACTUALLY protecting themselves by playing The Good Mommy. Society still shits on them if they perform perfectly. Ok, if someone gets demonized if they say anything about regretting having a kid or that it's a miserable existence. So fucking what?? She wasn't lionized as a mother. She's a socially approved domestic slave and a second-class citizen.

>>16097
True. I also hate how people talk about how much happier moms are than non moms. Any mother will tell you, she’s not actually happier, she’s just too exhausted to pay any attention to anything else besides the kid.

>>8706
Overpopulation is a myth. It's a misallocation of resources veiled as a "poor people take up too much space" issue. There is more than enough space and resources on this earth, one multibillionaire's wealth could quite literally end homelessness globally or end world hunger but capitalism says it's okay for some of us to hoard wealth because "Well, they earned it!" By exploiting whose labour, I wonder.

>>16141
Aren't there studies out there that basically state childless people are on average happier than those with children?

>>16303
Wealth isn't a resource that determines overpopulation because on a basic level money is not necessary to survive. Arable land, water, and food are. The way we use those resources is simply not sustainable, ergo we are overpopulated. Simple as.