Cliches in media that bug you. Anonymous 22667
What are some cliches in media that you want to see less of? No matter of story, characters, world building, design, cliches about everything is accepted here. The discussion is open.
Traumatizing the character and pretending that's development. I'm watching fucking True Blood (spoilers duh) and it's just disgusting what they are doing with Tara, she was one of the coolest characters and you would think you're going to watch her grow as a person and stuff but nope, she needs to find love, then be manipulated by a witch or goddess or whatever, then her boyfriend is killed, then she is kidnapped, raped, tortured, and it just keeps adding shit up and for what?? Seriously I can't take this shit anymore it's just fucking ridiculous.
t.ranny vibes>from what show is she?
Learn to read
eggs death is so fucking bothersome it haunted me for the rest of the series just cause why
Romance/sex being the reason why MC bothers to do anything. Would really love more media without either.
Its terrible when only mildly bad things happen to a character though… Rape should just be censored to hell. Male directors just fetishized it its not even necessary. But I'm bored by characters who's only negative experiences involve drama. They can't talk about anything that's truly bad. Nobody wants to watch something that plays it safe. Why would I want to watch something that's that bored and uninspired.
You can't have good conflict without depth, you can't have a story without conflict. People take it way too far sometimes, but I hate censorship aiming to rip the brains out of everything for fits of hysteria. Flat characters…. feel worse than shopping at dollar general for a birthday gift.. not much thought went into it. Its like here's this cheap thing from the drugstore. Have a nice life I guess…
I'm also bothered by the unneeded use of rape or sexual trauma.Yes, I know that rape happens in real life and that it has a lot of negative effects on the person that could be discussed, but when it's so much overused and fetishized it becomes unberable.
Male characters have so many cool backstories and if you check the female ones 40% to 50% involve rape.
fuck anon yes you are so right. i loved the series outlander until jamie gets tortured, raped, and manipulated by that evil guy. and then he cant even bare to look at his lovers eyes cuz the rapist traumatized him with her perfume or some shit. lazy as f storytelling
one that annoys me is those movies where there's a high school girl that's supposedly super ugly that's really beautiful but then has a makeover where she gets even more beautiful and finally acknowledged by everyone.
it isn't the "Hollywood ugly/normal people ugly" disconnect but more what it teaches.
The protagonist is usually smart, talented, witty, AND beautiful with pretty much no actual issues besides being insecure and low status. They are hardly ever the real underdog..but then this is sold as a story for underdogs. It's like a very twisted up version of hero worship with a normie label slapped on it–reinforcing the status quo and people's insecurities in a disingenuous way. Also, a movie trying to flip-off shallow people by…the main character being hotter than them is very two-faced tbh.
Main boy gets with main girl. Canon het romances. Canon romances in general. They very rarely add to the story for me.
>>22688>They are hardly ever the real underdog..but then this is sold as a story for underdogs
In a similar vein, throughout my childhood it made me feel really bad that media would depict people as total losers for "only" having like two or three friends, since I usually didn't have any. The social outcasts aren't the people who get occasionally picked on by Chad/Stacy but have a small circle of close friends, they're the people who go entirely unnoticed throughout life.
I get that it's easier to write an appealing story when the protagonist has friends, I'm not saying everything has to be about autists and rejects, just that they don't have to dramatize them as huge failures just for not being 100% glamorous.
I really loved that show! But I hated when this happened. It is mind boggling to me how much writers like that have no self-awareness. I wouldn't say its lazy just gratuitous sadism. How the fuck do they figure it is a good idea to include in any kind of writing? Its just sadism
Still I loved most of outlander. Most of it wasn't like that, so I skipped parts I hated. I cannot genuinely hate that show, even though bits of it are ridiculous. Too much of it is also really good kek.
Slightly similar issue for me is when movies depict a "poor person" or "poor family", who happen to live in either a nice suburban home with a car, or a nice studio apartment in a metropolitan area.
Like, I get that those hollywood fucks have never met a poor person before, but come on, at least try.
I don't think those moves are made to talk about poor people issues, they're movies about lower middle class normies who think they're poor and can wallow in self victimhood for a bit.
Family love being the main drive to do something. So many people have fucked up families can’t relate to this. It’s ok from time to time but these days it’s really overused. Just save the world because it needs saved.
Pretty much everything in anime now. The voice actors, the way they sound, the way they talk in japanese. It didn't used to be this way. I don't know how to explain it I just feel like anime has become so inundated with cliche I can't enjoy it anymore. A few rare ones from really great studios are not like that but the vast majority is just crap. I guess I really liked Demon Slayer. That was so inundated with cliches it was hard for me to warm up to it though. I miss the wierd japan, that did ridiculous things. The whole reason I watched anime was because it was so out there. The japanese just do such wierd things. I KNOW they have a wierd creativity, that they can take in insane directions. What am I trying to say.. I guess that is suppressed a lot more now?
Then again there are some animes, like K-on, that had cliches but never emphasized them enough for me to notice.
Yeah if anything both boys and girls tend to like and look up to teenagers of the opposite sex not so much the other gender at the same age as them. At least that's been my onservation.
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Basically media where horrible shit happens with no insight or commentary on the issue other than "This bad :(((", it's almost always cheap shock value, voyeuristic and most importantly completely unrealistic. This shit gets praised for being deep so often that I think these people just want an excuse to get off to it, the authors obviously are doing it already.
Best example I can think of is Emergence, which is a hentai and very obviously made for creeps who jerk off to girls suffering, and the author literally goes out of his way to have the main character make retarded decisions to continue her suffering but because it has "dark" themes faggots act like it's some artistic statement and not degenerate porn.
It reminds me of Game of Thrones (spoilers duh) when Jaime (a character they spent like 4 seasons developing as sympathetic and troubled by the things he did) just rapes Cersei in the middle of a funeral in front of the deceased corpse of their dead son. It was so fucking stupid, it didn't match the character, or the story or anything at all. It was like the episode quota of sexual violence had to be filled so they just decided to roll with it. I mean, one of the things I loved about the show was that Jaime-Cersei relationship was GOOD (yes they tried to kill Bran to keep him from telling but if Bran told anyone they would be dead and their children would be no-name Waters at best if Robert didn't kill them too) like almost every single action from Jaime was to protect their relationship. It was a genuine, taboo-breaking relationship with tons of nuance and they just ruined for nothing.>>22679
It made me think of Key the Metal Idol (a very weird cyberpunk anime that almost feels like a bootleg from Evangelion and Ghost in the Shell but it preceded them both), the anime is full of random sexual violence that comes out of nowhere merely for fetishistic purposes, totally out of place and killing the general mood of the anime.>>22688
Basically every single Netflix movie about outcasts.
I can't stand western audiences shitting on animes that don't resonate with their lives because THEY ARE INTENDED FOR JAPANESE AUDIENCES, ATTENDING THE SPECIFIC PECULIARITIES OF JAPANESE SOCIETY FOR FUCK SAKE. Like those cunts bitching about a joke a creator of Serial Experiments Lain made at a Digimon event about cancel culture, they simply CAN'T get their heads off their butts and consider that there might certain aspects of JAPANESE MEDIA that make more sense in Japan than in the US, or Europe, or wherever the fuck the dumb cunts are from. Btw if you wanna watch something cool i recommend Aku no Hana.
uhh, not sure why the person that responded seemed to say something different than the other person they supposedly agreed with
She's saying Japanese media is "strange" because its made for Japanese society and its cultural differences. "God get over it that its weird.."
Not any of those anons, but Japanese people definitely
don't talk or move like 90% of anime characters in real life. At least not in such an overly exaggerated way. So I wouldn't attribute that part to "Japanese culture" or cultural differences. That'd be like saying that Anglo people in real life talk and act like CalArts cartoon characters.
You just acclimated to how weird anime is. Things that seemed strange to you are now cliches. While I would state there's probably been some mild reduction in the range of anime tone and subject matter, most of it is, literally, you.>>22788
I would agree with you, you can only watch so many "wacky Japanese gameshows" until you realize, that's the default
. That's just how it is.
she still has a bit of a point about a lot of the recent stuff basically just being weaponized pandering playing to very specific tropes and moefuel. even higher quality ones often play into it.
think calling it "weird" is reductive though…I think it was just a freer creativity, for example a lot of older anime doesn't at all remind me of how Japan's mainstream culture ACTUALLY is and makes me wonder what influences they had.
>>22805>influences they had
Massive amounts of money was flowing in, it wasn't that the influences were different, it was that the barrier for entry was so low any chucklefuck with enoughfriends could release an OVA series and make a buck. After the bubble popped anime homogenized because the economic risks were higher.
really? I'd think the modern moeblob creators are way more likely to have been inspired by other moeblob content.
Again, this is because profit margins are tighter, and producers are more risk averse. Producers see moeblob sells, producers request more moeblobs be created. While I have no doubt that a lot of animators are "inspired" from moeblob shit, so too did Miyazaki watch the same movie a dozen times as a kid for his waifu.
I don't really understand this as moeblob stuff these days isn't a carbon copy of the stuff that used to exist, etc. Feel free to tell me what moeblob content Miyazaki was inspired by tho.
The influences they had were literature, film, music, and real life (not just from Japan but from all over the world).
The influences they have now are mostly just otaku shit. Miyazaki and Anno have criticized this IIRC.
>>22813>I don't really understand this as moeblob stuff these days isn't a carbon copy of the stuff that used to exist
No, it's not an exact copy, but it is in fact an inferior copy. Tsundere and Kuudere for example, often come from the Asuka/Rei archetype (and those two characters themselves, if I'm not mistaken, were meant to be deconstructions of charatcer archetypes that already existed back then, as well as Misato)
This is EXACTLY what I was referring to.
Got a little lost in my head over there. What I meant is that the reason anime is getting full of cliche crap is because they are targeting a much larger western audience, removing all the cool stuff it used to have because western people think they're the center of the world and get angry when they fail to comprehend something.
It's gonna be pretty specific, but I'm gettinh hella tired of seing not a single fuck with zn edgy style in movies set in current times. You're really telling me that out of the 10 chracters the MC know, none of them is edgy? or has an out there style? I call bullshit because everyone knows someone like that. If it's not a friend or a familly member, it's a coworker, a friend of a friend or familly friend or whatever. It's bullshit representation I know but damn, I'm getting pretty tired of all the same-y characters
I agree ive noticed this a lot lately….where have all the wierd kids gone in media what in christ
>mother dies in childbirth
>never gets mentioned again
>father dies in something as mundane
>is a source of heroic inspiration and invokes touching memories for the rest of the hero’s character arch
The edgy kid/character became cliche and now people think it's cringe
Well if the mother died giving birth that means the kid never knew them
hot girl falls in love with nerdy, unattractive guy. its so obviously moid wish fulfillment and the fact that its always a geeky, unattractive male and never an unattractive female exposes how shallow moids are.
oh and "ugly girl gets a makeover and changes herself completely and gets her crush to like her". its always the girl that has to change herself to be more pleasing to men
>>23381>unattractive male and never an unattractive female exposes how shallow moids are.
Women aren't allowed to look and act natural in moid-created media and they definitely aren't allowed to be unattractive unless their supposed ugliness is the point of their character>"""ugly""" girl gets a makeover and suddenly she's stunningly model-tier beautiful>this is supposed to be her "inner beauty"
I'm so tired of this crap
99% of shoujo/otome/reverse harem series seem to have a main male love interest that is a complete asshole and borders on, or sometimes is completely outright, abusive.
Picrel because I watched this series when I was younger and I enjoyed the romance initially, but the main male interest Go Jun Pyo started acting like an outright sociopath to the point I couldn't watch it anymore. He literally punches a guy out just for talking to Jandi. And the show continues to push them together, and a narrative that he's just some "misunderstood" guy.
From the first episode, I thought Jandi would be different from your typical shoujo MC that acts like a complete naive pushover for this kind of guy, since she showed much more confidence, but she ended up becoming the same thing.
Even when there is a character, like Yoon Ji-hoo, that treats the MC much better than the main love interest, MC continues to choose the asshole. Yoon Ji-hoo was much sweeter to Jandi, but that won't work with the "Women like bad boys" narrative now, will it?
I just wish there was a ban on rape in media. I'm just so tired of seeing it shoved into everything. Every single book series you think will be good ends up having a scene.>>22688
I'm tired of seeing beautiful people in movies. For the love of God, just let me see some normal looking people.
Idk if music counts, but I'm sick of rap being popular. I'm sick of the most popular songs in the genre just being "sex sex pussy drugs violence", it's tiring knowing that this is what every zoomer and moid in my age range enjoys; it's not even good music, every song follows the same formulaic approach and I just don't care for it. >>23381
I agree a lot, and like the other anon said, 99% of the time, the 'nerdy' characters aren't even ugly, they just dress like an exaggerated dork but are still fairly attractive. Comparing the big bang theory to actual scrotes I've met in STEM, the 4 guys on the show are a huge step up from most STEM grads. Give me a cystic-acne ridden teenager with a small pot-belly and a hunched back with pizza stains on all his unironed clothes, piss bottles in his computer room that is just a bare concrete floor in his mother's garage that hasn't been cleaned for months, cockroaches inhabiting one half and him in the other, patchy facial hair and some kind of obvious growth on his face. Give me an actually ugly disgusting person who needs to grow and develop and who isn't attractive by the end, but is likeable and better off, and yes, he can even pair with a woman if you want but for the love of Christ can she not be a 10/10 model because no one believes that shit. Even Quasimodo in the Disney adaption of 'Notre Dame de Paris' was pretty attractive given what Quasimodo is meant to be in Hugo's novel, not that I ever imagined him as my pillow or anything but he's not even that hideous in the cartoon.
Of course we all know it'll never happen because it's not profitable to put ugly people on a screen, the audience will either walk out or hate the movie/show without knowing why they hate it.
Why do you want to have ugly people in movies so much? Do you really want to look at an ugly person for an hour plus?
Because we are ugly lol. It's pretty alienating to see only pretty characters on screen you know? As if unattractive people don't deserve neither acknowledgement nor respect
Wtf? How is everyone in your life so fucking ugly?
I hate the Willhelm scream. Completely takes me out of a movie. It's not even being used because it's free anymore, they are hundreds of stock screams. It's this weird in-culture cult thing and I hate it.
>>23422>I'm sick of the most popular songs in the genre just being "sex sex pussy drugs violence"
I'd say a lot of music is just like that in general, not just rap, not that it means you're not allowed to dislike it. It's all basically part of the human condition so people talk about it a lot
For example, rock's foundation is nothing but you know, sex and drugs
Oh I know this all too well, but it's kind of eased off in recent decades, you have some rock or pop songs inspired by writers like Orwell, or nostalgia for being young. It's still pretty cringy at times, but at least they're trying to branch away from what's easy. I know there's also rap that is more than just appeal to the reptilian brain, it just feels like there's a very specific trap rap sound that everyone my age goes nuts for and I can't stand it. >>23439
They're not, but they're also not all 10/10s. I remember reading something a Hollywood SFX person wrote about how they used to design dinosaurs, and now 90% of their work is making people look more attractive than they really are in movies and TV. Then of course there are ads with the same SFX teams giving people snow-white teeth, smoothly ironed foreheads, and flawless, pimple free skin. I'd just like to see how people react to someone genuinely ugly in a movie, or even someone "average".
>>23422>Idk if music counts, but I'm sick of rap being popular. I'm sick of the most popular songs in the genre just being "sex sex pussy drugs violence", it's tiring knowing that this is what every zoomer and moid in my age range enjoys; it's not even good music, every song follows the same formulaic approach and I just don't care for it.
I see statements like this being amde fun of for being "notliketheothers" or "borninthewronggeneration" but it's true? When i used to be in high school literally none of the kids there listened to anything other than rap or rap adjacent music, and it's not like there's something inherently wrong with the genre, but the songs they listened to were so repulsive and devoid of any meaning. I think it's okay to listen to some stupid, simple music from time to time but for it to make up the majority of what you listen to, and play it loudly for everyone to hear your shitty songs?
>>23381>its always the girl that has to change herself to be more pleasing to men
You would enjoy Densha Otoko for the inversion of this trope
On that note, I hate overused stock sounds.>>23428
I just don't want everyone to be a 10/10 according to the exact same beauty standards. I want to see people who are attractive or unattractive to different degrees, like in real life. Would it hurt you at all? I'd say it'd be better because it wouldn't be promoting unrealistic beauty standards and body image issues.
>>23422>Give me a cystic-acne ridden teenager with a small pot-belly and a hunched back with pizza stains on all his unironed clothes, piss bottles in his computer room that is just a bare concrete floor in his mother's garage that hasn't been cleaned for months, cockroaches inhabiting one half and him in the other, patchy facial hair and some kind of obvious growth on his face.
Crystal cafe prose, truly>>23445>>23449
The main difference is that boomer music came with metaphors to describe sex or drug use. Whereas rappers don't even bother with this. Some artistic craft is definitely lost with this, and as a consequence, i'd say artistic value is lost at the same time.>>23441
Holy shit, have you noticed that it's always the same roaring sound that is used for big felids attacks ? It's always the fucking same roar I swear it.
scene showing the main moid as a kid masturbating for the first time.
tomboyish or serious female character who is cool, strong and intelligent and has a sexy aura, whereas feminine upbeat cutesy women are depicted as dumb and immature.
the sarcastic charismatic rich man in a suit character with a chiseled jawline and an expensive watch who works at some big company and everyone thinks he's amazing, hot and the best problem solver (i want to punch this stereotype in the face). bonus annoyance if it shows him entering his office with his secretary giving him dismissed advice and everyone rushing in a panic and that cold colors/low lighting atmosphere.
sex scene with super loud heavy breathing and then cut to the people's dumbfounded smile as they look at each other and go "wow that was amazing".
love triangles/will they-wont they/ship baiting/shipping fanservice
i despise those since most of the time they look like they're made just to stir up the shippers in the fan communities, which can actually be harmful, knowing how batshit-insane most shippers are, sending threats to people who disagree with them or even to the show creators just because they didn't make their otp canon
Uh anon, I highly doubt the reason anime is the way it is now is because of the western audience. Aside from Netflix and kids' shows, the avid anime audience in the west doesn't even bring any money to the studios.
I don't disagree that most anime these days is soulless and generic, but I don't think that's the reason. Also there is a selection bias there. There was tons of crap anime before that is simply forgotten. You can't compare a handful of master-pieces to the dozens of generic crap being dished out every season.
The very sad simple reason for most anime being generic trash is just trying to make something profitable. If I recall Japan does not give half a rat's ass about how well the show does with readings but how much merchandise it can sell.
This, why can't people realize that anime has actually gotten worse? They'll say something like
>well, back then there used to be a lot of trash anime too
>you only remember the classics/good ones and forget the bad quality stuff
>if you think that most anime is trash then you're not an anime fan/this isn't your hobby
>what are you talking about? anime looks better than ever
(as if the issue with modern anime was the level of detail in the art or animation) lol
They intentionally create shit anime now, back then it was more often accidental and instead of being offensively bad, bad anime used to be, usually, just boring. Sexualized shit did exist, but you can't possibly believe that it was as widespread and overt as it is now! And yes, cliches did exist too, but somehow they've gotten even more stale now, and it feels like they get stale even faster than before, too.
It hasn't changed. You just got used to the tropes and realised the voice-acting is overacted and repetitive. There's no novelty or foreignness in it anymore.>>22801>wacky Japanese gameshows
not really. they're obviously different but in a dull way most of the time.
not to say that's unique to japan. tv is arguably worse elsewhere.
No it's definitely worse now. Anime didn't go as far to over- enthusiastically ritualize inane dumbshit, back in the day. It's almost like they're trying to own past mistakes by shoeing cliches in every chance they get. That and they don't know how to get the old creative energy back before moe dulled people's imaginations.
>>23533>You just got used to the tropes and realised the voice-acting is overacted and repetitive.
Watch 5 anime from the 70s-80s and 5 anime from the mid-90s onwards and tell me that anime has never had voice acting that sounds like real people and that it has always sounded as overdramatic and grating as it does now.
>>23451>>23422>it's tiring knowing that this is what every zoomer and moid in my age range enjoys
Do they? The majority of "popular" music is only listened to because it is framed and marketed by the industry as "stuff cool people listen to", not because of its own merits.>>23456
Reminder that Hollywood and the culture industry in general has a caste system and runs on nepotism. They have absolutely no clue about anything beyond their circle, don't care about anything beyond their circle, and every story they tell is a condescending appropriation of the myths and perceptions of the society they parasitize.
It never had voices that sound like real people. I suppose one could say some things got worse, but voice actors are never actually realistic unless it's for a dry narrative or education animation.
japanese TV is so fucking boring. i swear i go to any channel to find something to watch and its just dumb variety shows that are just random celebrities going "heeeeeeh!?" to whatever stupid clip they're shown. actual torture.
call me shallow but moids are mostly ugly in media compared to their female counterparts. old and mediocre at best but this whole world pretends like they are the hottest, i wish if the women are pretty at least make her partner her equal to make it visually pleasing but it's rarely aesthetic given the imbalance….i watch media to feel good if i wanted to watch a normal life with normal looking people i'd just live my life i don't need a tv screen at all tbh